Independent School Educators' List (ISED-L)

Sunday, February 15, 2009

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Let me push a bit...don't our students like "computer class?"
K-5 students seem to LOVE going to "computer." We are spending so much =
time asking teachers to integrate, then the teachers get frustrated =
because the students don't have the "basics" and the lesson is thrown out. =
Here is my question, why don't we teach students the "basics" - how to =
blog, how to add/edit a wiki, how to use Word, Excel, Open Office, how to =
use a digital camera, scanner, etc. Then when teachers throw a project at =
them they are prepared. It is like teaching a wilderness survival =
course...you never know what you might encounter but the instructor tries =
to prepare you for everything imaginable.
Just some ideas.

>>> Deborah Hazen <dhazen@lansdownefriendsschool.org> 02/15/09 8:09 PM >>>
How about the changes on the horizon--I'm thinking voice =20
recognition--- the innovations are coming fast and furious and we =20
need to teach kids how to be strong critical thinkers, creative, =20
ethical.......I fully recognize that any "computer how to" that I =20
teach them right now will be old and quaint by the time they get to =20
college---I do teach them how to create a bibliography--but the =20
formatting using a word processor is so not the point---I'm teaching =20
them to be academically honest-Microsoft Word is just a glorified =20
typewriter that allows them to demonstrate that they know how to cite =20
sources.

On the other hand, I am interested in getting kids exposed to =20
technology so that they can get jazzed about potential outlets for =20
their creativity and possible further study/careers.

One last thought, my husband is in IT--he goes into companies and =20
analyzes their business processes so he can deliver customized IT =20
that will meet their business needs and be useable by their =20
workforce. If he does his job well, anyone can use the technology as =20
an adjunct to their primary role ---they don't have to become =20
techies---the accountants are still accountants, the engineers are =20
still engineers.....Isn't this where technology is going---tech =20
solutions that meet human needs and interface easily? So don't we =20
need to educate future accountants, IT folks, engineers, small =20
business owners, artists, teachers, CSA managers, etc......to be good =20
communicators across disciplines rather than strong users of off the =20
shelf computer packages?

Deb

On Feb 15, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Norman Constantine wrote:

> There are all kinds of cell phones. Kids use them all just fine. It =20
> is not like cars. Cars are analog devices.
>
> Norman
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of William =20
> New
> Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 2:14 PM
> To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills
>
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Greg Kearney wrote:
>
>> teach people to drive only one kind of car
>
> We do just that. The ordinary kind of car that Hertz and Avis rent at
> every US airport.
>
> Left-hand steering wheel.
>
> Automatic transmission.
>
> Gas and brake pedals in customary position.
>
> Direction signal stick on left of steering column.
>
> Rear view mirror in center of front window.
>
> That's all you need - twist the key to start and go.
>
> Standard high-school driver education stuff.
>
>
> All of these are different from my car in England.
>
> American kids are lost if they try to drive a manual shift British car
> on the right hand side of the road and navigate round-abouts. And use
> hand signals for turning -- with their right arm.
>
>
> William New
> The Novent Group
> Palo Alto, CA
> 94302-0979
> T: (650) 328-4000
> E: wnew@novent.org
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, =20
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L
>
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, =20
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L
>

[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, =
non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L

[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L

Re: 21st Century Technology Skills

I introduce morse code as an important part of the development of =20
wireless technology. Many students enjoy learning and transmitting in =20=

morse code--it is especially exciting for younger students who are =20
intrigued by "codes" of all kinds. Morse code is still used in =20
amateur radio communication.

It is certainly true that most students today do not know morse code--=20=

but that was also the case when I was in school in the 1950's.

Technology has evolved dramatically in the last few decades, but the =20
fundamentals of human communication have not. I would agree that "new =20=

technologies... do not replace existing forms of =20
communication.....they enhance or add on to them."

James Wingate =96 The Lovett School =96 Atlanta
(WA2EIU)
jwingate@lovett.org
_______________________________________

On Feb 15, 2009, at 6:53 PM, A forum for independent school educators =20=

wrote:

> This is clearly false, Do you or do you expect your students to know
> how to set type or transmit in morse code? Try and send a telegram
> today. These were once common skills of communication which are now
> all but extinct.
>
> Greg
>
> On Feb 15, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Norman Constantine wrote:
>
> > New technologies does not replace the existing forms of
> > communication. They
> > either enhancement, or they add on to it.
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, =20
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L
>
>

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

How about the changes on the horizon--I'm thinking voice
recognition--- the innovations are coming fast and furious and we
need to teach kids how to be strong critical thinkers, creative,
ethical.......I fully recognize that any "computer how to" that I
teach them right now will be old and quaint by the time they get to
college---I do teach them how to create a bibliography--but the
formatting using a word processor is so not the point---I'm teaching
them to be academically honest-Microsoft Word is just a glorified
typewriter that allows them to demonstrate that they know how to cite
sources.

On the other hand, I am interested in getting kids exposed to
technology so that they can get jazzed about potential outlets for
their creativity and possible further study/careers.

One last thought, my husband is in IT--he goes into companies and
analyzes their business processes so he can deliver customized IT
that will meet their business needs and be useable by their
workforce. If he does his job well, anyone can use the technology as
an adjunct to their primary role ---they don't have to become
techies---the accountants are still accountants, the engineers are
still engineers.....Isn't this where technology is going---tech
solutions that meet human needs and interface easily? So don't we
need to educate future accountants, IT folks, engineers, small
business owners, artists, teachers, CSA managers, etc......to be good
communicators across disciplines rather than strong users of off the
shelf computer packages?

Deb

On Feb 15, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Norman Constantine wrote:

> There are all kinds of cell phones. Kids use them all just fine. It
> is not like cars. Cars are analog devices.
>
> Norman
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of William
> New
> Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 2:14 PM
> To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills
>
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Greg Kearney wrote:
>
>> teach people to drive only one kind of car
>
> We do just that. The ordinary kind of car that Hertz and Avis rent at
> every US airport.
>
> Left-hand steering wheel.
>
> Automatic transmission.
>
> Gas and brake pedals in customary position.
>
> Direction signal stick on left of steering column.
>
> Rear view mirror in center of front window.
>
> That's all you need - twist the key to start and go.
>
> Standard high-school driver education stuff.
>
>
> All of these are different from my car in England.
>
> American kids are lost if they try to drive a manual shift British car
> on the right hand side of the road and navigate round-abouts. And use
> hand signals for turning -- with their right arm.
>
>
> William New
> The Novent Group
> Palo Alto, CA
> 94302-0979
> T: (650) 328-4000
> E: wnew@novent.org
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

This is clearly false, Do you or do you expect your students to know
how to set type or transmit in morse code? Try and send a telegram
today. These were once common skills of communication which are now
all but extinct.

Greg

On Feb 15, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Norman Constantine wrote:

> New technologies does not replace the existing forms of
> communication. They
> either enhancement, or they add on to it.

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

I could not have said it better!=20

Thanks,

Renee Ramig
Seven Hills School

-----Original Message-----
From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Ernest Koe
Sent: Sun 2/15/2009 2:15 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills
=20
Great discussion so far. This is a topic close to my heart. To further
clarify my thoughts from before, let me offer the following ideas (aka, =
How
To Think Like a Geek).

It seems to me that...

1. It is not about having skills in specific software programs, it is
about having generally adaptive thinkers/users of technology
2. it is not 'general software skills' vs 'specific programs'. We =
need to
stop thinking of software as requiring skills. There is nothing =
skilled
about being good Microsoft Word user.
1. Incidentally, if I get resumes that list software programs as
skills, they go into 'filed' bin
3. Its about having patterns of understanding--cognitive =
tools--that
lead let students discover new solutions and use-patterns on their =
own
4. It's not about being a good Excel/Word/Powerpoint user, it is =
about
knowing how to communicate ideas with these stuff
5. That we have people today who can't do Excel or Word doesn't mean =
that
the failure was not teaching enough computer skills.
6. Perhaps, the lack of general basic technology literacy among some
people today is precisely a reflection of why our traditional models =
of
teaching 'computing' don't work in the first place.
7. All specific software 'skills' can be taught by showing someone =
how to
find the 'help' button or how to search google.
1. i.e. "If I don't know how to do something, I know how to find =
out
how."
8. New technology has disrupted the old ways of communicating. =
Just
ask the newspaper companies.
9. Our 'standards' about style, format and form are diminishing in =
value
everyday. Insisting on having a Microsoft Word processed 'essay' will =
seem
like asking for a type-written essay.
10. The real standard is not "What is the Right Way" but "What is the
Best/Fastest/Clearest/Most Creative" way.
11. There will always be defenders of the old regime on the grounds =
of
needing to teach control, discipline or appropriate style...
12. but the Remix generation is already here (Lesig's term, not mine) =
-
and if we don't get with the program, we'll be the ones taking =
classes about
how to use Flickr circa 2020
13. Writing as we know it, is dying.
1. "Good writing is dead. Long Live Good Writing".
14. Perhaps, the stories we tell ourselves about how the sort of
'skills' students need today are less about the students' problems =
then they
are about our own anxieties about the relevance of our knowledge and
abilities.
15. Nurture the internal geek or be ruled by them.

Cheers

[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, =
attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Some thoughts here:

--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Brian Lee <blee@mph.net> wrote:

> Here are my reasons...
>
> - 15 pg English paper can not be done on wiki or blog
> - 5 pg book report can not be handed in on a blog or wiki

When I was in the classroom, I taught English and History. When I specified a length, I specified word count, not pages. This eliminates the font game; ie a paper in Courier looks longer than the identical paper in Times New Roman.

> - Writing a paper for class in college requires you to
> write in a word
> processor
> - Accounting requires the use of Excel

Writing a paper in college requires critical thinking. I have taught this using word processors, wikis (use headings as sections, which become paragraphs), and presentation software (each screen corresponds to a paragraph), flow charts, outlines, index cards, etc. Allowing the final format to determine the creative process is an unnecessary limit.

Our accountants do not use Excel. They use Quickbooks. While some accountants might use Excel, not all do. Accounting requires a person understand the needs of their clients, and the way current tax law applies around those needs. Then, a good accountant uses a software tool to set up a system that automates as much as possible.

>
> -- SNIP --
>
> I still believe in understanding the basics is very
> important. It will come
> in handy when they go to college. My brother who was in
> the Navy once
> observed personnel input data into Excel, and did the
> calculations on a
> calculator because they didn't know how Excel is used.

This sounds like more of a training issue than an argument for teaching Excel at all levels.

For what it's worth, I had a book published last year. I was given chapter templates, and support from my editor at working with them. And there was still a production workflow where people took my drafts and converted them into a print-ready format. The point: I'm a fairly adept technology user. I know my way around a word processor. Yet, when there were elements that went beyond what I knew how to do (ie, how to convert a word processed doc into a print-ready format) my publisher didn't train me how to do it (and if that had been a requirement I would have found a different publisher); they gave me what I needed and used in-house talent to do the rest.

RE publishing in general: when the web to print workflow is cleaned up, the current disruption of the internet on print media will seem small in comparison. And it is coming. We recently worked on a project where we helped to build out an infrastructure to support open content. The workflow of easy web to print is firmly in the sights of many people; sites like Lulu.com are an initial foray into this space, but more is coming.

And at that point, getting books on demand from web-based resources will become accessible. And that's when the fun really starts.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

The whole point was missed,,,,,

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Brian Lee
Sent: Sun 2/15/2009 4:11 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Here are my reasons...

- 15 pg English paper can not be done on wiki or blog
- 5 pg book report can not be handed in on a blog or wiki
- Cover letters are done in a word processor
- Resumes with special formatting are done in a word processor
- Writing a paper for class in college requires you to write in a word
processor
- Accounting requires the use of Excel

A wiki, blog, online communities are another form of communication. They
don't replace the communication we use now. If you have all of your
students say, my report is on a blog, go read it. It's not a polite thi=
ng
to do.

I still believe in understanding the basics is very important. It will=
come
in handy when they go to college. My brother who was in the Navy once
observed personnel input data into Excel, and did the calculations on=
a
calculator because they didn't know how Excel is used.

We can also look at different scenarios:
Scenario 1:
"Hi teacher. You can read my book report on my blog on myspace. Here=
is
the link. Sorry, I didn't hand in the paper. Just go visit the website
when you get home."

Scenario 2:
"Hi teacher. My blog does not allow me to do footnotes, and I don't know
how to use a word processor. I'm sure you will understand. I put the
references at the end of my blog for you to read. When you get home,=
just
access my paper, print it out, and write down your comments for me"

Scenario 3:
"Hi college professor. My chemistry homework is online. Here is the=
URL
for my assignment."

Scenario 4:
"Hi teacher. I printed out my homework from the blog. Ignore these onl=
ine
advertisements. I don't know how to use a word processor, so I printed=
this
from my web page. Also, the tables may look messy because I don't know=
how
to use the tables in Excel, yet."

New technologies does not replace the existing forms of communication.=
They
either enhancement, or they add on to it.

Television did not replace radio. Internet did not replace television.
Satellite television did not replace Cable companies. Satellite radio=
did
not replace terrestrial radio.

Brian Lee

On 2/15/09 12:42 PM, "Norman Constantine" <nconstantine@wakefieldschool.=
org>
wrote:

> "I've been surprised to see students who can run a blog, a wiki, etc.=
without
> problem really struggle with the basics of writing a paper with a word
> processor"
>=20
> So why not let them use the tools that they know to do the
> assignments......why use 20th century tools to do 21st century proble=
ms in
> 20th century ways..
>=20
> Norman
>

[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution=
, non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

the 15 page English Paper may a relic of the 20th century soon.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Doug and Glo=
ria Kerin
Sent: Sun 2/15/2009 4:51 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

From an English teacher, you are right on. Bravo.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lee" <blee@mph.net>
To: <ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

> Here are my reasons...
>
> - 15 pg English paper can not be done on wiki or blog
> - 5 pg book report can not be handed in on a blog or wiki
> - Cover letters are done in a word processor
> - Resumes with special formatting are done in a word processor
> - Writing a paper for class in college requires you to write in a word
> processor
> - Accounting requires the use of Excel
>
> A wiki, blog, online communities are another form of communication.=
They
> don't replace the communication we use now. If you have all of your
> students say, my report is on a blog, go read it. It's not a polite=
thing
> to do.
>
> I still believe in understanding the basics is very important. It will
> come
> in handy when they go to college. My brother who was in the Navy once
> observed personnel input data into Excel, and did the calculations on=
a
> calculator because they didn't know how Excel is used.
>
> We can also look at different scenarios:
> Scenario 1:
> "Hi teacher. You can read my book report on my blog on myspace. Here=
is
> the link. Sorry, I didn't hand in the paper. Just go visit the websi=
te
> when you get home."
>
> Scenario 2:
> "Hi teacher. My blog does not allow me to do footnotes, and I don't=
know
> how to use a word processor. I'm sure you will understand. I put the
> references at the end of my blog for you to read. When you get home,=
just
> access my paper, print it out, and write down your comments for me"
>
> Scenario 3:
> "Hi college professor. My chemistry homework is online. Here is the=
URL
> for my assignment."
>
> Scenario 4:
> "Hi teacher. I printed out my homework from the blog. Ignore these
> online
> advertisements. I don't know how to use a word processor, so I printed
> this
> from my web page. Also, the tables may look messy because I don't know
> how
> to use the tables in Excel, yet."
>
> New technologies does not replace the existing forms of communication.
> They
> either enhancement, or they add on to it.
>
> Television did not replace radio. Internet did not replace television.
> Satellite television did not replace Cable companies. Satellite radio=
did
> not replace terrestrial radio.
>
> Brian Lee
>
>
>
> On 2/15/09 12:42 PM, "Norman Constantine"
> <nconstantine@wakefieldschool.org>
> wrote:
>
>> "I've been surprised to see students who can run a blog, a wiki, etc.
>> without
>> problem really struggle with the basics of writing a paper with a word
>> processor"
>>
>> So why not let them use the tools that they know to do the
>> assignments......why use 20th century tools to do 21st century probl=
ems
>> in
>> 20th century ways..
>>
>> Norman
>>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attributi=
on,
> non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L
>
>

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Great discussion so far. This is a topic close to my heart. To further
clarify my thoughts from before, let me offer the following ideas (aka, How
To Think Like a Geek).

It seems to me that...

1. It is not about having skills in specific software programs, it is
about having generally adaptive thinkers/users of technology
2. it is not 'general software skills' vs 'specific programs'. We need to
stop thinking of software as requiring skills. There is nothing skilled
about being good Microsoft Word user.
1. Incidentally, if I get resumes that list software programs as
skills, they go into 'filed' bin
3. Its about having patterns of understanding--cognitive tools--that
lead let students discover new solutions and use-patterns on their own
4. It's not about being a good Excel/Word/Powerpoint user, it is about
knowing how to communicate ideas with these stuff
5. That we have people today who can't do Excel or Word doesn't mean that
the failure was not teaching enough computer skills.
6. Perhaps, the lack of general basic technology literacy among some
people today is precisely a reflection of why our traditional models of
teaching 'computing' don't work in the first place.
7. All specific software 'skills' can be taught by showing someone how to
find the 'help' button or how to search google.
1. i.e. "If I don't know how to do something, I know how to find out
how."
8. New technology has disrupted the old ways of communicating. Just
ask the newspaper companies.
9. Our 'standards' about style, format and form are diminishing in value
everyday. Insisting on having a Microsoft Word processed 'essay' will seem
like asking for a type-written essay.
10. The real standard is not "What is the Right Way" but "What is the
Best/Fastest/Clearest/Most Creative" way.
11. There will always be defenders of the old regime on the grounds of
needing to teach control, discipline or appropriate style...
12. but the Remix generation is already here (Lesig's term, not mine) -
and if we don't get with the program, we'll be the ones taking classes about
how to use Flickr circa 2020
13. Writing as we know it, is dying.
1. "Good writing is dead. Long Live Good Writing".
14. Perhaps, the stories we tell ourselves about how the sort of
'skills' students need today are less about the students' problems then they
are about our own anxieties about the relevance of our knowledge and
abilities.
15. Nurture the internal geek or be ruled by them.

Cheers

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

> Here are my reasons...
>
> - 15 pg English paper can not be done on wiki or blog
> - 5 pg book report can not be handed in on a blog or wiki
> - Cover letters are done in a word processor
> - Resumes with special formatting are done in a word processor
> - Writing a paper for class in college requires you to write in a word
> processor
> - Accounting requires the use of Excel
>
> A wiki, blog, online communities are another form of communication. They
> don't replace the communication we use now. If you have all of your
> students say, my report is on a blog, go read it. It's not a polite thing
> to do.
>
> I still believe in understanding the basics is very important. It will
> come
> in handy when they go to college. My brother who was in the Navy once
> observed personnel input data into Excel, and did the calculations on a
> calculator because they didn't know how Excel is used.
>
> We can also look at different scenarios:
> Scenario 1:
> "Hi teacher. You can read my book report on my blog on myspace. Here is
> the link. Sorry, I didn't hand in the paper. Just go visit the website
> when you get home."
>
> Scenario 2:
> "Hi teacher. My blog does not allow me to do footnotes, and I don't know
> how to use a word processor. I'm sure you will understand. I put the
> references at the end of my blog for you to read. When you get home, just
> access my paper, print it out, and write down your comments for me"
>
> Scenario 3:
> "Hi college professor. My chemistry homework is online. Here is the URL
> for my assignment."
>
> Scenario 4:
> "Hi teacher. I printed out my homework from the blog. Ignore these
> online
> advertisements. I don't know how to use a word processor, so I printed
> this
> from my web page. Also, the tables may look messy because I don't know
> how
> to use the tables in Excel, yet."
>
> New technologies does not replace the existing forms of communication.
> They
> either enhancement, or they add on to it.
>
> Television did not replace radio. Internet did not replace television.
> Satellite television did not replace Cable companies. Satellite radio did
> not replace terrestrial radio.
>
> Brian Lee
>
>
>
> On 2/15/09 12:42 PM, "Norman Constantine"
> <nconstantine@wakefieldschool.org>
> wrote:
>
>> "I've been surprised to see students who can run a blog, a wiki, etc.
>> without
>> problem really struggle with the basics of writing a paper with a word
>> processor"
>>
>> So why not let them use the tools that they know to do the
>> assignments......why use 20th century tools to do 21st century problems
>> in
>> 20th century ways..
>>
>> Norman
>>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution,
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Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Here are my reasons...

I still believe in understanding the basics is very important. It will come
in handy when they go to college. My brother who was in the Navy once
observed personnel input data into Excel, and did the calculations on a
calculator because they didn't know how Excel is used.

We can also look at different scenarios:
Scenario 1:
"Hi teacher. You can read my book report on my blog on myspace. Here is
the link. Sorry, I didn't hand in the paper. Just go visit the website
when you get home."

Scenario 2:
"Hi teacher. My blog does not allow me to do footnotes, and I don't know
how to use a word processor. I'm sure you will understand. I put the
references at the end of my blog for you to read. When you get home, just
access my paper, print it out, and write down your comments for me"

Scenario 3:
"Hi college professor. My chemistry homework is online. Here is the URL
for my assignment."

Scenario 4:
"Hi teacher. I printed out my homework from the blog. Ignore these online
advertisements. I don't know how to use a word processor, so I printed this
from my web page. Also, the tables may look messy because I don't know how
to use the tables in Excel, yet."

New technologies does not replace the existing forms of communication. They
either enhancement, or they add on to it.

Television did not replace radio. Internet did not replace television.
Satellite television did not replace Cable companies. Satellite radio did
not replace terrestrial radio.

Brian Lee

On 2/15/09 12:42 PM, "Norman Constantine" <nconstantine@wakefieldschool.org>
wrote:

> "I've been surprised to see students who can run a blog, a wiki, etc. without
> problem really struggle with the basics of writing a paper with a word
> processor"
>
> So why not let them use the tools that they know to do the
> assignments......why use 20th century tools to do 21st century problems in
> 20th century ways..
>
> Norman
>

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

=20
this is a resend because of line limitation violation

________________________________

From: Norman Constantine
Sent: Sun 2/15/2009 12:38 PM
To: A forum for independent school educators
Subject: RE: 21st Century Computer Skills

The five steps can be summed up in one word......desire.....if you have=
the desire to use the tool Help will show you the way.......the more=
you use it the easier it gets to use......imagination and creativity=
are what helps you use the tools.....

Norman

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Go to http://marcprensky.com
=20
lots of good ideas about cell phones and everything else.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of carolynwilso=
nkoerschen
Sent: Sun 2/15/2009 1:35 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Yea Norman!
I am always amazed by all the dithering around posting homework=20
assignments online- does it take up too much of the teacher's?=20
shouldn't the student be responsible enough to write assignments in=20
the planner? and on and on........

Why not encourage students to snap a picture of the assignment=20
written on the board with a cell phone?
Why not remind students they can use some cell phones to create an=20
audio memo to themselves?

These are just two examples of how cell phones can support learning=20
but it is rare to seem their use permitted or encouraged.

CWK

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Yea Norman!
I am always amazed by all the dithering around posting homework
assignments online- does it take up too much of the teacher's?
shouldn't the student be responsible enough to write assignments in
the planner? and on and on........

Why not encourage students to snap a picture of the assignment
written on the board with a cell phone?
Why not remind students they can use some cell phones to create an
audio memo to themselves?

These are just two examples of how cell phones can support learning
but it is rare to seem their use permitted or encouraged.

CWK

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Your 2 cents are worth a hundred million!!!!!!
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Ernest Koe
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 4:28 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Let me offer a perspective from the 'outside'.

We don't teach kids to play computer games, yet they develop gaming lite=
racy
just fine on their own. They can figure out the rules, learn on their=
own,
from their friends, try and err and ultimately play these games. There=
is no
class for Warcraft and we don't send kids to class learn how to play Sim=
s.

That we adults believe that basic computers skills are critical to stude=
nt's
technology literacy doesn't necessarily make it so. In my experience,
children will solve problems and learn the skills required to tackle the=
m so
long as the feedback loops exist. We are prone to get in the way.

Years from now, the idea that we have classes to teach kids how to recog=
nize
the basic patterns of using software will seem as quaint as the notion=
of
teaching someone to make a phone call by dialing a rotary phone.

That we, as a generation, needed the five-steps to learn this stuff does=
n't
mean that it should be the norm.

This isn't to say 'skills' are unimportant. Complex human activities req=
uire
skill, but I would suggest that these skills can and should be developed=
as
an integral aspect of the learning activity and not separate from it.

There is nothing sacred about having skills in Microsoft Word, Excel,
Photoshop or Insert-your-favorite-software. Today's Word is tomorrow's
Wordstar.

As a software engineer/designer, the only constant we believe is in the=
idea
that newer technology will let us design better interfaces. Nothing toda=
y is
sacred. Software is "soft--malleable by definition. Our expectation is=
that
people have the cognitive abilities and experience to see patterns, make
connections, relate, try and fail on their own. And their expectation=
is
that we do preciesly that to make things easier and fun.

We should be teaching writing, not wordprocessing. We should be applying
math, not teaching Excel. We should be blogging, not teaching Wordpress.

my humble 2cents

Ernest Koe

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Well stated Denis. Google is the Bomb that explodes all myths. It is all=
about wanting to.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Dennis Arms
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 2:26 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

I'm going to push a little bit on this one. I graduated from high schoo=
l in 2005. I took the "Business" sequence of courses which included elec=
tives such as Document Formatting, Advanced Document Formatting, Compute=
r Applications I, and Computer Applications II. All of these courses=
taught us the basic skills such as setting margins, reinforced touch=
typing, and all of that other "stuff."=20
So after I graduated from high school I took a job working in a pre=
school, then as a computer lab aide, then as a Technology Specialist.=
I never had any kind of training but a majority of the skills I learne=
d were easily applied to other areas. When I worked as a computer lab=
aide the room was full of Macs which I had never used before.=20
In my opinion the important computer skills include: being able to=
talk TO people, not AT people, being able to search effectively, and=
being willing to try. When I worked as a Technology Specialist I could=
always count on Google to provide some guidance to fix whatever problem=
I was having.=20
Technology courses are an important part of a students career. I=
LOVED my computer courses in high school because they taught me things=
that I could use right away. I can type 80+ words a minute thanks to=
my computer courses, and I can talk anyone through changing columns,=
creating tables, creating formulas, etc.
These "five step computer users" are the people who have never had forma=
l training. I see them every day, scribbling down the steps I am giving=
to them..."wait, wait, I need to write that down."

>>> Renee Ramig <rramig@sevenhillsschool.org> 02/14/09 12:06 PM >>>
I have found that having a "computer skills class" does little for my
students because nothing is context. I show them how to do columns and
footers in Word or formulas in Excel. But, the first they use it in
class for a project, they often need to be re-taught as now it is in
context of some curriculum area.

Personally, I believe in the adage "No technology before its time." I
find that teaching a technology tool works best, is retained better, and
can be transferred more easily if it is taught in the context of a
curriculum project.

Just my 2-cents.

Renee Ramig
Seven Hills School

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

There are all kinds of cell phones. Kids use them all just fine. It is =
not like cars. Cars are analog devices.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of William New
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 2:14 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Greg Kearney wrote:

> teach people to drive only one kind of car

We do just that. The ordinary kind of car that Hertz and Avis rent at=20
every US airport.

Left-hand steering wheel.

Automatic transmission.

Gas and brake pedals in customary position.

Direction signal stick on left of steering column.

Rear view mirror in center of front window.

That's all you need - twist the key to start and go.

Standard high-school driver education stuff.

All of these are different from my car in England.

American kids are lost if they try to drive a manual shift British car=20
on the right hand side of the road and navigate round-abouts. And use=20
hand signals for turning -- with their right arm.

William New
The Novent Group
Palo Alto, CA
94302-0979
T: (650) 328-4000
E: wnew@novent.org

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

well stated......you learn how to use a hammar driving in nails on a boa=
rd that means something to you.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Renee Ramig
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 12:05 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

I have found that having a "computer skills class" does little for my
students because nothing is context. I show them how to do columns and
footers in Word or formulas in Excel. But, the first they use it in
class for a project, they often need to be re-taught as now it is in
context of some curriculum area.

Just my 2-cents.

Renee Ramig
Seven Hills School

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

"I've been surprised to see students who can run a blog, a wiki, etc. =
without problem really struggle with the basics of writing a paper with =
a word processor"
=20
So why not let them use the tools that they know to do the =
assignments......why use 20th century tools to do 21st century problems =
in 20th century ways..
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Emily S. =
Auerswald
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 8:38 AM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

As a librarian, I can address this from a practical standpoint. I see =
students working on assignments on their own, which really gives me a =
glimpse into what they are and aren't capable of doing on a computer. =
I've been surprised to see students who can run a blog, a wiki, etc. =
without problem really struggle with the basics of writing a paper with =
a word processor. Many have trouble figuring out how to set text in two =
columns, save as different types of documents, or even changing the =
width of margins. The difficulties of Excel are even greater.

Many teachers assume that when they give an assignment in Word or Excel, =
the kids just know how to use them. This isn't always the case. Seems =
to me that keeping some of these basic skills - that may on first glance =
appear too basic to worry about - really will be helpful to many of our =
students.

__________________________________________
Emily S. Auerswald
Upper School Librarian
Indian Creek School
1130 Anne Chambers Way
Crownsville, MD 21032
eauerswald@indiancreekschool.com

-----Original Message-----
From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Keith E =
Gatling
Sent: Fri 2/13/2009 1:09 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: 21st Century Computer Skills

As I consider what I should be teaching in the coming years, I've been
wondering, with all the neat stuff people have been doing with podcasts,
wikis, blogs, and other forms of interactive media, is there really any
point in my continuing to teach such nuts and bolts stuff as word =
processing
and spreadsheet use? I keep hearing about how the 7th grader of today =
won't
be using any of these "old fashioned" tools by the time they're in =
college,
and so I wonder if continuing to teach them now is just a waste of
everyone's time.
--
keg

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * =
* *
Keith E Gatling - Computer Instructor
Manlius Pebble Hill School
5300 Jamesville Rd
DeWitt, NY 13214
315.446.2452
http://www.gatling.us/keith

Some teachers teach subjects. Others teach students.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * =
* *

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Keith,
=20
All of the techniques that you mention were developed for old style =
analog text production. I do not think we need to teach them, and better =
yet, to require them to be used with the new tools.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Keith E =
Gatling
Sent: Fri 2/13/2009 11:05 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Beth Ritter-Guth <
britterguth@hotchkiss.org> wrote:

> This is a fascinating conversation. Here are my thoughts, for what =
they
> are worth...
>
> I cam to Hotchkiss after a wonderful career teaching College English.
> Technology was an excellent tool for helping students manipulate and
> analyze texts. Programs like Zotero helped them compile better =
research;
> Google Docs helped them navigate collaborative writing; Second Life =
helped
> them explore literature on a deeper and more personal level. But, =
those
> wonderful tools were partnered with texts (Dante's Inferno, for =
example);
> the technology did not stand alone.
>
> We should never sacrifice content at the altar of technology, but we =
should
> be realistic about the kinds of navigation and processing skills our
> students will need in college.

So my question is then, does plain old, non-sexy, word processing matter
anymore? Is it still important to teach students how to format documents =
to
some standard, and in such a way that when the time comes that they have =
to
revise them, it's not as much work as writing it all over again? Are =
tabs,
margins, headers, footers, footnotes, text-wrapping around pictures,
non-numbered title pages that are part of the same document (but don't =
count
as page 1), and inserting table important anymore in this wikified,
podcasting world?

And let's not forget desktop publishing. For those who do eventually go =
into
it, aren't those "boring" things I just mentioned exactly the kinds of
things you have to look out for and deal with? Aren't even web pages
designed with some nod to traditional typography and page layout?

Are we so sure that what they do ten years from now will be so radically
different from this week that we're willing to say "They'll pick that =
old
stuff up if they need it, go with the new stuff"?

I'm not so sure about that. While it's definitely true that the tools of
2019 will be very different from the tools of 2009, the change between =
any
two years along the way will be incremental, and we can't afford to =
throw
out today's tools because we're sure that no one will be using them in =
10
years. After all, they might still be using them in 7.

And maybe the old tools will just take on a new form. From 1984, when I =
saw
my first IBM PC, it took about 10 or 15 years for the typewriter to =
pretty
much go the way of the dinosaur as a regularly used tool. On the other =
hand,
the skills that had been taught in many a typing class go on in the form =
of
word processing, and the people who write word processing programs have
taken the time to put in as standard features all the little things that =
we
struggled to get right on the typewriter, and to combine it with =
typography
and publishing. Ah, the typewriter has gone away, but typing hasn't; =
with a
better tool it's become something more and better.

Podcasting? To me that's time-shifted radio with a minimum of equipment. =
In
fact, I use podcasts to listen to radio shows like "Wait Wait, Don't =
Tell
Me" and "A Prairie Home Companion" that I can't listen to in real time.
Perhaps the future of radio lies in the podcast, but not everyone is =
going
to want or need to do their own. 30 years ago, when I wanted people to =
hear
my music so I could become a songwriter, things like YouTube would've =
been
really great. But again, that's not for everyone. And those tools will
change too.

I guess I figure that *everyone* still needs the "nuts and bolts" stuff,
which is evolving incrementally. *Some* people will gravitate toward
*creating* stuff in some of the newer, sexy, forms like podcasts, =
videos,
wikis, etc, but that won't be the majority.

One last example. I love listening to audiobooks. It allows to "read" =
while
I'm taking a walk or driving, which would otherwise be "dead time." But =
as
much as I love audiobooks, it's notoriously hard to highlight or put a
Post-It note on a particularly interesting page of that audiobook so you =
can
check it out later on. Or photocopy that page to send to someone else. =
In
those cases I find myself having to get an old-fashioned *book*, and =
hoping
that it has an index I can check for a key word in the passage in =
question
so I can find it.

It's all incremental.

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Norman--

We decriminalized cellphones this year--many kids use them as calendars
and watches, so they have become useful get-around tools. A few of our
teachers are figuring out how to take advantage of the technology for
learning, with the camera being a prime tool. One issue is that not all
cellphones are created equal in specs.

This doesn't mean that we don't wind up taking the odd iPhone away from a
kid during class or assembly; MonkeyBall is more interesting than sports
announcements--imagine that! But it's okay to have your phone out and
visible in hallways, etc.--just not in class unless otherwise instructed.

In general, I think the telephone video that Bill Fitzgerald put up
earlier in this thread kind of says it all. We become expert at the things
that we need to become expert at; some things become universal, while
others remain or revert to being esoteric (which is why rental agencies
don't offer many cars with standard transmissions anymore). One can
imagine old-time 5-step instructions for things like roll toilet paper;
there's a reason why gas stoves with electronic ignition have that
persistent little clicker--otherwise my mother would never remember to
turn the knob backwards those few degrees once the stove is lit. She's not
stupid, but she needs the reminder, as do I sometimes.

In the meantime, our students can text fast, blind, and one-handed on a
10-key cell-phone keypad while we joust with each other over which
word-processing programs to teach.

I wish I had ever learned to touch type, but I muddle through. Having just
reread Neal Stephenson's IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS THE COMMAND LINE, I've
had a hankering to master Linux, but I don't think I will--I don't really
need to, and it's not a hobby of mine. I served my time teletyping BASIC
to a mainframe and punching and sorting and fixing FORTRAN card-stacks. I
wrote documentation for a defunct (obviously) graphics-mode MS-DOS word
processor in Wordstar many years ago, and I survived the jump to MS Word.
There'll come along a new industry standard, and I'll make the jump again.

And to think I can actually be adaptable and flexible with a high school
education that ended in 1968! Makes me think it's not really the skills we
teach that matter so much, in the end, but rather something more universal
in the way of habits of mind.

Cheers--Peter Gow

Peter Gow, Director of College Counseling and Special Programs
Beaver Country Day School
791 Hammond Street
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
www.bcdschool.org
Tel. 617-738-2755
FAX 617-738-2701
Skype: petergow3

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

On the music issue.....or any other issue really........can we not allow=
students to ask how to make the music they like......and hence the prog=
ressions that they need........digital tools are very good at producing=
sounds......some believe at least as good as any analog tool (instrumen=
ts) that exist.........should we teach people to make music with them=
using 21st century tools instead of older century analog tools? I dont=
know the answer....i just wish i did.
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Keith E Gatl=
ing
Sent: Fri 2/13/2009 5:38 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Thomas Daccord <tom@edtechteacher.org>w=
rote:

> "I can guarantee that the job I hire someone to do will change or may=
not
> exist in the future, so this is why adaptability and learning skills=
are
> more important than technical skills." (Clay Parker of the manufacture=
r BOC
> Edwards quoted in Tony Wagner's Global Achievement Gap, 2008, p30).
>
> Ultimately it's not about learning technology, but learning to learn=
with
> technology. The tools you choose are less important than what students=
are
> doing with them. Ideally they should be learning how to problem-solve=
in a
> team framework. So, don't "teach" them word processing, but rather tell
> students you expect them to create a multimedia magazine complete with=
a
> Cover Page, Table of Contents, an Index, formatted text, columns, scan=
ned
> images, graphs, and charts and they need to figure out collectively=
how to
> get it done. (Break them into small groups for specific tasks, if need=
ed.)
> We should spend a limited amount of time teaching kids tools, and much=
more
> time trying to figure out how to use technologies to foster 21st centu=
ry
> competencies in our students.
> Tom

OK, but looking at this from a musical perspective, don't you have to=
spend
a certain amount of time practicing your scales and learning a bunch of
chords (and maybe even a little music theory) before you can go out there
and not only accompany anyone, especially to the point of being able to
cover up their mistakes?

Does every student have to figure out for themselves what a I-IV-V
progression is, or can we give them that particular set of nuts and bolt=
s as
a start, and then let them figure out more complex progressions as/if=
they
need them?

Is it easier to learn how to use the advanced aspects of a tool, or a
different manufacturer's take on a tool if you've been given the basics
first? Looking at it in a way that's much more relevant to the lives of=
our
teenaged students, do we expect them to "problem-solve" how to drive a=
car
on their own, or do we make sure that they have plenty of training in=
how to
use this potentially dangerous tool?

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

keg,
=20
I applaud your stance on the tools. My question to you, are your student=
s being presented history or are they doing history. If you are watching=
someone shingle a roof (presenting history) it will be very hard to und=
erstand why a nail gun is much better to do the job than a traditional=
hammar is. (doing history). Just a thought
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of TJ Rainsford
Sent: Fri 2/13/2009 5:00 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Keith:
Teaching fundamentals is rarely a waste of time (if it is, then my fellow
historians and I are going to be up the creek without a paddle!). And=
I
assure you that applications like spreadsheets are not going anywhere
anytime soon as long as there are accountants, statisticians, social
scientists, or anyone else working with referential data or calculations.
The tools may become more robust but the basics are still going to be=
the
same.

I am of the opinion that we need to combine the education of the tool=
(word
processing, spreadsheets, databases) with the use of the tool (writing
skills, data analysis and manipulation, information management). In oth=
er
words, theory has to be part of practice. All too often, I encounter=
young
business professionals and students who are quite adept at using some
whiz-bang tools but can't format a professional document or do data anal=
ysis
because they don't know how to use the tools designed for those jobs.

By some estimates, the average computer user utilizes less than 30% of=
the
capability of the standard desktop. In part it is because we are only=
now
getting to the point of integrating technology in the classroom. As fut=
ure
professionals become more adept at marrying theory to toolsets, people=
like
yourself will actually become MORE important, not less. Someone has to=
show
them how to use the tools to manage more and more information and the=
basic
applications are the fundamental tools.

Just my two cents.
TJ

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Keith E Gatling <kgatling@mph.net> wrot=
e:

> As I consider what I should be teaching in the coming years, I've been
> wondering, with all the neat stuff people have been doing with podcast=
s,
> wikis, blogs, and other forms of interactive media, is there really=
any
> point in my continuing to teach such nuts and bolts stuff as word
> processing
> and spreadsheet use? I keep hearing about how the 7th grader of today=
won't
> be using any of these "old fashioned" tools by the time they're in col=
lege,
> and so I wonder if continuing to teach them now is just a waste of
> everyone's time.
> --
> keg
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *=
* * * *
> Keith E Gatling - Computer Instructor
> Manlius Pebble Hill School
> 5300 Jamesville Rd
> DeWitt, NY 13214
> 315.446.2452
> http://www.gatling.us/keith
>
> Some teachers teach subjects. Others teach students.
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *=
* * * *
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attributi=
on,
> non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L
>

--
TJ Rainsford
E: tjrainsford@gmail.com

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Most of your students carry all of the technology in their pockets that=
we need but we won't let them use it. Cell phones are a magnificent tec=
hnology tool that are forbidden in almost all school environments that=
I know off. Use them!!!!!! The other question that we refuse to ask....=
.Is the classroom a viable 21st century form of organization for learnin=
g? Ask it!!
=20
Norman

________________________________

From: A forum for independent school educators on behalf of Deborah Hazen
Sent: Sat 2/14/2009 6:30 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

I'm in a pre K -6 school teaching grades 5 and 6. We think of=20
computer technology as a tool in the classroom---it is no different=20
from a pencil, a ruler, protractor, calculator or microscope. Just as=20
I don't do stand alone lessons in 5/6 on the use of a calculator--
instead imbedding the learning about a particular calculator function=20
in the appropriate math lesson---I don't do stand alone instruction=20
with computers. Students see me using computers in many different=20
ways as I teach the class and they have opportunities to use this=20
tool for multiple purposes in the classroom.

When I was in high school, classmates who were so inclined were=20
learning programming using punch cards--I never took that class--and=20
I can find my way around a computer just fine now. Kids are amazing=20
users and innovators when given new tools---I can sit kids down in=20
front of Alice (www.Alice.org), a "3D programming environment...meant=20
to be kids first exposure to object oriented programming..." without=20
any hints or instruction. Within a couple of class periods they are=20
showing me their virtual worlds. I find the same to be the case for=20
word processing and presentation software. My students pick up on the=20
spreadsheet packages and visual organizing software with a bit more=20
scaffolding---but I think that is because in those cases their brain=20
power is split between the technology and learning new concepts in=20
math and organizing expository writing.

I would also note that not all of my students have access to=20
technology at home.

Regards,

Deb Hazen

> As always, the discussion here is fascinating and it seems led by=20
> people
> working with middle and high school students. I'd love to know what
> elementary teachers think in these discussions. The loftier the=20
> language
> and goals stated, the more I think the speaker is forgetting some=20
> basic
> steps in a student's learning about computers that occur prior to high
> school. I wonder what fundamental concepts and mental structures=20
> need to
> be built (and skills developed) before students can be the=20
> adaptable 21st
> century learners described in this discussion.
>
> Young children think concretely and sometimes grasp the whole=20
> better when
> it is broken down into parts. Yes, my school still teaches word
> processing in a stand alone fashion (and keyboarding and other=20
> discrete
> skills), not as much as we used to, but without this emphasis on=20
> writing
> by itself, the written component of a multimedia presentation is=20
> weakened.
> Students rush towards graphics, audio, and video while building web
> pages. They jot off hasty, ill-considered responses on blogs. =20
> Sticking
> with language in a word processor helps them learn to focus on=20
> ideas and
> content first. This year I halted a multimedia web publishing=20
> project,
> sent every fourth grader back to Word to refine their thinking and
> language, then returned to creating and publishing multimedia web=20
> pages
> using iWeb after they reached an acceptable level of clarity in=20
> their text
> comments. Our time spent in Word included lots of editing and=20
> formatting
> work that yielded presentable print documents. I can't imagine word
> processors going away anytime soon.
>
> In response to comments about the five-step user, I also feel in early
> learning about computers there is a lot of pressure to provide=20
> handouts,
> even though these end up being single-use documents. Young=20
> children need
> lots of support and clearly identified small, manageable steps. =20
> Sometimes
> this looks like instruction focused just on skills, and sometimes=20
> it is
> mini-lessons to move along a bigger project.
>
> Students as young as first grade already fit the contrasting=20
> profiles of
> five step users wanting manuals and those who adapt to feedback while
> using a computer. Some students who start out as five-step users soon
> gain the confidence and proficiency to work well with less external
> support, but some never do in the six years that I teach them. I=20
> don't
> expect that every young student has a strong built-in technology=20
> instinct
> or intelligence, and I hope there are opportunities in the future for
> those who don't shine with technology. All of these children have=20
> gifts,
> talents, and strengths of one kind or another.
>
> Greg Stevens
> Lower School Coordinator of Instructional Technology
> MICDS
> St. Louis, MO
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,=20
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L
>

Saturday, February 14, 2009

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Ernest Koe <ernestkoe@gmail.com> wrote:

> Let me offer a perspective from the 'outside'.
>
> We don't teach kids to play computer games, yet they develop gaming
> literacy
> just fine on their own. They can figure out the rules, learn on their own,
> from their friends, try and err and ultimately play these games. There is
> no
> class for Warcraft and we don't send kids to class learn how to play Sims.

Yeah, but this is stuff they *want* to do.

And sometimes you need formal training in the things you want to do. Some
kids can pick up piano by ear while others need formal lessons. And while
being able to play by ear is a coveted skill in itself, those who have it
could still benefit from formal lessons to take them to "the next level." I
speak as one of those ear-players who had a little guidance at the right
time in chords and such, but never enough of the right type of lessons to
put me where I wanted to be in terms of keyboard skills.

Having learned those "lessons without a context" like scales and intervals,
and getting my speed and coordination up, would have allowed me to be the
pianist I wanted to be, and might even have given me a different career.

You can't always learn even the things you want to know by teaching yourself
or learning from your friends.

This isn't to say 'skills' are unimportant. Complex human activities require
> skill, but I would suggest that these skills can and should be developed as
> an integral aspect of the learning activity and not separate from it.
>
> There is nothing sacred about having skills in Microsoft Word, Excel,
> Photoshop or Insert-your-favorite-software. Today's Word is tomorrow's
> Wordstar.
>

I agree here. However, once you learn that a right-tab setting exists in
Wordstar or that there's a way to put your name, the title of your paper,
and the page number at the bottom of every page in XyWrite, you'll know to
look for that feature in MacWrite, WriteNow, Word, or whatever else comes
down the pike.

> We should be teaching writing, not wordprocessing. We should be applying
> math, not teaching Excel. We should be blogging, not teaching Wordpress.

Ah, but as I implied before, none of my English or History teachers taught
us typing. They told us what format the typed document should be in, and
assumed that someone else had taught us typing. Even then, the kids who
hadn't taken that class struggled with getting things just right because
they didn't know how to make the best of the tool. And the simple fact of
the matter here is that the end results looked pretty much the same - the
paper typed by the kid who didn't know about setting margins or tabs looked
pretty much the same as mine, it just took them longer to do it.

It would be absolutely wonderful if English and History teachers (I pick on
them because they're the most writing-intensive classes) took the time in
the first couple of classes to go through the same writing mechanics with
word processing that they used to do in the longhand days. But they're
loathe to do that because it takes time away from *their* content.

As I was sitting around the house thinking about this whole thing, it
occurred to me what my issue is. Everyone thinks of me as the "computer
guy." But to me the computer is simply a tool that allows me to get the
things I love done more easily. I'm a writer who uses the computer as his
tool, and as a result, my big thing here has been giving everyone the word
processing skills they need to make writing easier. I'm a composer who uses
the computer as his tool so that I can actually hear the notes I'm writing
down. I'm the artist who uses the computer as his tool when I need to draw a
picture for the family newsletter or a class handout. I'm the publisher who
uses the computer as his tool to create the family newsletter. I'm the model
train aficionado who found that Excel is a great way to convert sizes from O
scale to N scale. I've found ways that the computer is useful for what I
want to do, but I'm not one of those people who love the computer in and of
itself.

I haven't done blogs or wikis or podcasts because they're the latest thing,
but only when I've decided that they're the best way to do what I want to
do.

But for the most part, I'm the *writer* who uses the computer as his tool,
and wants to show everyone the easy way to do this, and all that word
processing of any kind has to offer. I want them to appreciate it now as
much as I did when I learned it in typing class.

I'm getting the impression that this makes me a dinosaur.
--

keg

========================================
Keith E Gatling
mailto:keith@gatling.us
http://www.gatling.us/keith
The fact that I'm open-minded doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
========================================

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

I'm in a pre K -6 school teaching grades 5 and 6. We think of
computer technology as a tool in the classroom---it is no different
from a pencil, a ruler, protractor, calculator or microscope. Just as
I don't do stand alone lessons in 5/6 on the use of a calculator--
instead imbedding the learning about a particular calculator function
in the appropriate math lesson---I don't do stand alone instruction
with computers. Students see me using computers in many different
ways as I teach the class and they have opportunities to use this
tool for multiple purposes in the classroom.

When I was in high school, classmates who were so inclined were
learning programming using punch cards--I never took that class--and
I can find my way around a computer just fine now. Kids are amazing
users and innovators when given new tools---I can sit kids down in
front of Alice (www.Alice.org), a "3D programming environment...meant
to be kids first exposure to object oriented programming..." without
any hints or instruction. Within a couple of class periods they are
showing me their virtual worlds. I find the same to be the case for
word processing and presentation software. My students pick up on the
spreadsheet packages and visual organizing software with a bit more
scaffolding---but I think that is because in those cases their brain
power is split between the technology and learning new concepts in
math and organizing expository writing.

I would also note that not all of my students have access to
technology at home.

Regards,

Deb Hazen

> As always, the discussion here is fascinating and it seems led by
> people
> working with middle and high school students. I'd love to know what
> elementary teachers think in these discussions. The loftier the
> language
> and goals stated, the more I think the speaker is forgetting some
> basic
> steps in a student's learning about computers that occur prior to high
> school. I wonder what fundamental concepts and mental structures
> need to
> be built (and skills developed) before students can be the
> adaptable 21st
> century learners described in this discussion.
>
> Young children think concretely and sometimes grasp the whole
> better when
> it is broken down into parts. Yes, my school still teaches word
> processing in a stand alone fashion (and keyboarding and other
> discrete
> skills), not as much as we used to, but without this emphasis on
> writing
> by itself, the written component of a multimedia presentation is
> weakened.
> Students rush towards graphics, audio, and video while building web
> pages. They jot off hasty, ill-considered responses on blogs.
> Sticking
> with language in a word processor helps them learn to focus on
> ideas and
> content first. This year I halted a multimedia web publishing
> project,
> sent every fourth grader back to Word to refine their thinking and
> language, then returned to creating and publishing multimedia web
> pages
> using iWeb after they reached an acceptable level of clarity in
> their text
> comments. Our time spent in Word included lots of editing and
> formatting
> work that yielded presentable print documents. I can't imagine word
> processors going away anytime soon.
>
> In response to comments about the five-step user, I also feel in early
> learning about computers there is a lot of pressure to provide
> handouts,
> even though these end up being single-use documents. Young
> children need
> lots of support and clearly identified small, manageable steps.
> Sometimes
> this looks like instruction focused just on skills, and sometimes
> it is
> mini-lessons to move along a bigger project.
>
> Students as young as first grade already fit the contrasting
> profiles of
> five step users wanting manuals and those who adapt to feedback while
> using a computer. Some students who start out as five-step users soon
> gain the confidence and proficiency to work well with less external
> support, but some never do in the six years that I teach them. I
> don't
> expect that every young student has a strong built-in technology
> instinct
> or intelligence, and I hope there are opportunities in the future for
> those who don't shine with technology. All of these children have
> gifts,
> talents, and strengths of one kind or another.
>
> Greg Stevens
> Lower School Coordinator of Instructional Technology
> MICDS
> St. Louis, MO
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Here is my issue. I'm a 2005 high school grad, if I had not taken these =
"computer literacy" courses I would NOT have a job in the technology =
field. I would NOT be interested in technology. I would NOT have the =
skills to get a job, employers look for "basic technical proficiency." =
There are A LOT of school districts and independent schools that require a =
"technology test" before they even consider you for an interview. Until =
employers stop looking at "basic technical proficiency" we need to provide =
our students with the skills to succeed in the workplace. We cannot wait =
for each individual classroom teacher to learn Microsoft Word and then =
pass it on to their students. Yes, we might be creating "five step =
users." However, these users will have an understanding of what is and =
what isn't possible in the software we teach. They will have an "ah-ha" =
moment and remember that it is possible to create a four column document, =
insert a graph, add a footnote, and print double-sided. They might have =
to search Google for the steps to do those things, but they will know that =
it is possible.

>>> Ernest Koe <ernestkoe@gmail.com> 02/14/09 4:28 PM >>>
Let me offer a perspective from the 'outside'.

We don't teach kids to play computer games, yet they develop gaming =
literacy
just fine on their own. They can figure out the rules, learn on their own,
from their friends, try and err and ultimately play these games. There is =
no
class for Warcraft and we don't send kids to class learn how to play Sims.

That we adults believe that basic computers skills are critical to =
student's
technology literacy doesn't necessarily make it so. In my experience,
children will solve problems and learn the skills required to tackle them =
so
long as the feedback loops exist. We are prone to get in the way.

Years from now, the idea that we have classes to teach kids how to =
recognize
the basic patterns of using software will seem as quaint as the notion of
teaching someone to make a phone call by dialing a rotary phone.

That we, as a generation, needed the five-steps to learn this stuff =
doesn't
mean that it should be the norm.

This isn't to say 'skills' are unimportant. Complex human activities =
require
skill, but I would suggest that these skills can and should be developed =
as
an integral aspect of the learning activity and not separate from it.

There is nothing sacred about having skills in Microsoft Word, Excel,
Photoshop or Insert-your-favorite-software. Today's Word is tomorrow's
Wordstar.

As a software engineer/designer, the only constant we believe is in the =
idea
that newer technology will let us design better interfaces. Nothing today =
is
sacred. Software is "soft--malleable by definition. Our expectation is =
that
people have the cognitive abilities and experience to see patterns, make
connections, relate, try and fail on their own. And their expectation is
that we do preciesly that to make things easier and fun.

We should be teaching writing, not wordprocessing. We should be applying
math, not teaching Excel. We should be blogging, not teaching Wordpress.

my humble 2cents

Ernest Koe

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Just a piece of context here -- last year, I found a video in the Prelinger Archives giving instructions on using a new technology:

http://funnymonkey.com/dont-jiggle-switch-hook

Cheers,

Bill

Independent School Educators' List (ISED-L)

Sunday, February 15, 2009

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Technology Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Saturday, February 14, 2009

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills elementary school

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

Re: 21st Century Computer Skills

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