Thursday, February 12, 2009

Re: Web Refresh Document?

Thanks! I appreciate the recommendations for a CMS solution. I'll be honest...I'm not a full-time webmaster and the time I can spend on this is minimal. I was thinking of a spreadsheet template or other fairly simplistic model. I use Base Camp for
managing my magazine and wonder if others have used project management software like this to manage their web site?

Lorrie

dwfitzgerald@yahoo.com writes:
>Within a Drupal-based site, this would be pretty straightforward -- Revision tracking comes with the core install, and you can use a module called "Workflow" to create custom publishing workflows -- this can include setting pages that have not been
>updated in x days to trigger an email to a site admin.
>
>Moreover, you could also create searchable pages that filtered on dates -- so, for example, you could look for all pages containing "alumni" that have been updated within the last x days/weeks.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Bill


Lorrie Jackson
Director of Communications and Marketing
Lausanne Collegiate School (Memphis, TN, USA)
901-474-1003
ljackson@lausanneschool.com
www.lausanneschool.com
Skype: lorriejackson
Twitter: lausanneschool or lorriejl
Find Lausanne Collegiate School on Facebook!


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Re: Web Refresh Document?

Ah, great to hear you already work with FinalSite. We have a lot of respect
for the work Rob and his team does. Let me offer some insights from a
general web/database design perspective.

What are you talking about is really some kind of asset management system
and some kind of workflow component. Most content management systems let you
upload assets into an asset library which can then be linked to the content
pages themselves. What is needed beyond this (1) is a way to collect useful
meta-data about the asset, such as owner, time-of-upload, where-used etc and
(2) and interface to view and manage all this stuff.

So, with that in mind, I suspect that you'd be hardpressed to find an
'offline' management tool to do this. It is not impossible, but since all
the data is usually captured and stored in the CMS system anyhow, you might
have more luck getting a view created for your CMS, or having something like
FileMaker 'peek into' your CMS's database for that sort of data.

We use Drupal for most of our projects, and take advantage of the workflow
module (amongst others) to help with notifications and expiration.

You can also do this with FileMaker if you can access the database backend
(mysql or mssql). FileMaker (especially FMP10) can be the interface to your
assets meta-data--with FMP you have much richer environment for live reports
and other kinds of reporting/alerting.

Hope this helps

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:50 AM, TJ Rainsford <tjrainsford@gmail.com>wrote:

> Lorrie:
> Absent a content management system that can report changes to Web content,
> there are a couple of different strategies you can take but most require a
> fair amount of manual updating. Let me at least offer one potential
> strategy.
>
>

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Re: Web Refresh Document?

Within a Drupal-based site, this would be pretty straightforward -- Revision tracking comes with the core install, and you can use a module called "Workflow" to create custom publishing workflows -- this can include setting pages that have not been updated in x days to trigger an email to a site admin.

Moreover, you could also create searchable pages that filtered on dates -- so, for example, you could look for all pages containing "alumni" that have been updated within the last x days/weeks.

Cheers,

Bill

--- On Thu, 2/12/09, Lorrie Jackson <ljackson@lausanneschool.com> wrote:

> From: Lorrie Jackson <ljackson@lausanneschool.com>
> Subject: Web Refresh Document?
> To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 7:42 AM
> Not sure how to describe what I'm looking for, but does
> your institution keep a spreadsheet, database, etc. that
> details when each web page on your site has been refreshed
> (copy/photos/video/graphics) and when it is next due to be
> refreshed. If so, could
> you share a sample with me? Thanks!
>
> Lorrie Jackson
> Director of Communications and Marketing
> Lausanne Collegiate School (Memphis, TN, USA)
> 901-474-1003
> ljackson@lausanneschool.com
> www.lausanneschool.com
> Skype: lorriejackson
> Twitter: lausanneschool or lorriejl
> Find Lausanne Collegiate School on Facebook!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative
> commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed,
> http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L


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Re: Web Refresh Document?

Lorrie:
Absent a content management system that can report changes to Web content,
there are a couple of different strategies you can take but most require a
fair amount of manual updating. Let me at least offer one potential
strategy.

The first step will be to identify who is responsible for what. If you
happen to have a taxonomy for your Web site that outlines the various
content categories, that would help. Identifying who is responsible for
various categories across the site will help to keep a sense of order on
things.

The next step would be to come up with some rudimentary way of noting when
each section or page within the site was last update, by who and when they
anticipate making future changes. Some content will remain fairly "static"
and may only change once a semester or year but more dynamic content will
obviously change far more often. Identifying the difference between fairly
static versus dynamic content will also help in identifying what areas
within the site to concentrate your initial efforts.

Two solutions (or a combination of the two) come to mind.

1. HTML Comments: Regardless of what programming language is used to
produce a given page, you have the ability of adding comments to a page that
would not be displayed to the public but can be viewed by content managers.
If the folks responsible for content are fairly technologically savvy, this
could be a fairly simple way of keeping track of changes. This could be
done more "elegantly" by marking changes within the meta-data of a page
which could be made searchable, thus minimizing the manual effort of
reviewing every page.

2. Production Database: A fairly simple database could most certainly be
used to manage content production and scheduling. I would suggest building
the database scheme based on the taxonomy of the site and then drilling down
to sub sections or individual pages as necessary. As you noted, content
management on your site is decentralized so using something like a database
application may be preferably than a simple spreadsheet so that more than
one person can add changes at the same time.

If you think through the database design well, this database could also be
used as production scheduling system. In other words, additional fields
could be added to note when the next schedule update of content to a section
or page would need to be done (and preferably noting who is going to do
it!). With a little basic SQL knowledge, you can then create a report in a
spreadsheet application to note when and who will be making the next set of
changes (and making sure that when the changes are made, that the content
producer updates the database!).

Having said all of that, even a rudimentary content management system will
save you a lot of time and effort with managing and maintaining site
content. The return on the investment is far from immediate but it will
make life a lot easier over time.

Hope this helps!
TJ

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lorrie Jackson <
ljackson@lausanneschool.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Ernest (and the list),
>
> We are a finalsite school so I've just dropped Rob a line per your request.
> I'd like to also see best practices from other schools as well, especially
> those with limited staff or where page updates are decentralized. Thanks!
>
> Lorrie Jackson
> Director of Communications and Marketing
> Lausanne Collegiate School (Memphis, TN, USA)
> 901-474-1003
> ljackson@lausanneschool.com
> www.lausanneschool.com
> Skype: lorriejackson
> Twitter: lausanneschool or lorriejl
> Find Lausanne Collegiate School on Facebook!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution,
> non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>

--
TJ Rainsford
E: tjrainsford@gmail.com

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Re: Web Refresh Document?

Thanks, Ernest (and the list),

We are a finalsite school so I've just dropped Rob a line per your request. I'd like to also see best practices from other schools as well, especially those with limited staff or where page updates are decentralized. Thanks!

Lorrie Jackson
Director of Communications and Marketing
Lausanne Collegiate School (Memphis, TN, USA)
901-474-1003
ljackson@lausanneschool.com
www.lausanneschool.com
Skype: lorriejackson
Twitter: lausanneschool or lorriejl
Find Lausanne Collegiate School on Facebook!


[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L

Re: Web Refresh Document?

What an interesting question. Most CMS let you track updates and aging
stuff. I know Rob Martino at FinalSite is a thought leader on this stuff.
I'd drop him a line :)

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Lorrie Jackson <
ljackson@lausanneschool.com> wrote:

> Not sure how to describe what I'm looking for, but does your institution
> keep a spreadsheet, database, etc. that details when each web page on your
> site has been refreshed (copy/photos/video/graphics) and when it is next due
> to be refreshed. If so, could
> you share a sample with me? Thanks!
>
> Lorrie Jackson
> Director of Communications and Marketing
> Lausanne Collegiate School (Memphis, TN, USA)
> 901-474-1003
> ljackson@lausanneschool.com
> www.lausanneschool.com
> Skype: lorriejackson
> Twitter: lausanneschool or lorriejl
> Find Lausanne Collegiate School on Facebook!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution,
> non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>

--
Ernest Y. Koe
The Proof Group LLC
http://twitter.com/ernestkoe

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Web Refresh Document?

Not sure how to describe what I'm looking for, but does your institution keep a spreadsheet, database, etc. that details when each web page on your site has been refreshed (copy/photos/video/graphics) and when it is next due to be refreshed. If so, could
you share a sample with me? Thanks!

Lorrie Jackson
Director of Communications and Marketing
Lausanne Collegiate School (Memphis, TN, USA)
901-474-1003
ljackson@lausanneschool.com
www.lausanneschool.com
Skype: lorriejackson
Twitter: lausanneschool or lorriejl
Find Lausanne Collegiate School on Facebook!


[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L

Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

On Feb 11, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Matt Pearson wrote:

> Did you know you can get a great software package that gives you word
> processing, spreadsheet, presentation software, web authoring, best of
> class HD movie making, photo sharing and editing, DVD creation, all
> on a
> Unix based platform with regular updates and a huge support structure
> for just $1.00? The package is called iLife and iWork and the OS is
> OSX.


I switched directly from Appleworks to iWork. Pages exports very
well to both .doc and .pdf formats. It opens docx files.


As part of a large upgrade /lease with Apple we purchased an iWork
"site license" for about $250. That is: $250 for 550 users.

Carl Campion
Archmere Academy


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Re: The 21st Century School Tech Department

-----Original Message-----
From: Curt Lieneck <clienec@ucls.uchicago.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:21 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: The 21st Century School Tech Department

Interesting question.

If, as Daniel Pink says, the future will reward people who do things =20
only they can do, then it makes sense that the future will reward =20
schools who provide experiences that can't happen anywhere else.

As Jim rightly points out, the f2f relationships among school =20
community members are at the center of that and will remain so.

The tech department will be key in helping their schools figure out =20
what parts can happen outside school and how they are best made =20
available. The fun stuff will be figuring out what tech related =20
experiences can only take place in school and how best to make them =20
happen.

School IT will also continue to look more like business IT as we =20
spend more time on cutting operating costs, legal issues, protecting =20
our user base, and expanding our role in supporting/managing =20
increasingly sophisticated initiatives in fundraising, communication, =20
marketing, and administrative data practices and processes.

IT leaders who can leap quickly back and forth between the 5-inch view =20
and the 50,000 foot view while building interdependence across =20
constituent group silos will be even more important than they are =20
already.


Curt Lieneck
Director of Information Technology
University of Chicago Laboratory Schools

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

I should be more clear we let students use any word processor they
wish, we have OpenOffice installed but we have students using Google
Apps and even MS Word on their personal computers. The requirement is
that they be able to open, edit and print any document on all the
various systems.

They are required each time they use the lab to use a different system
then the last time they did. We use colored card to track this so we
don't have students saying they only want to use Macs or Windows or
what have you.

We have iLife and iWork on the Mac Apple gave use a great deal on the
bundle.


On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Matt Pearson wrote:

> My two cents (down from a nickel due to the economy),
>
> I find it interesting that you require three OS exposures for the
> student, but only one flavor of productivity software. I fully agree
> that multiple exposures are great and that it is not necessary to
> teach
> multiple office software types (even makes things worse actually).
> Instead, I find it interesting because it underscores the fact that we
> are moving more and more into the cloud (ala Google Docs, Ning,
> Voicethread, Blogs, Wikis <insert lots more open source web based
> stuff
> here>) and the device that you use to gain access to the cloud is
> becoming less and less important.
>
> We will always need the higher end content creation computers that
> exist
> to publish compelling content and code to the cloud, but what you
> use to
> interact with the software and services that exist there will soon
> be a
> very inexpensive device that we really don't care much about in
> terms of
> OS. The OS that wins or does battle successfully in that future
> market
> will offer huge bang for the buck and be very trim in terms of code
> base. Microsoft does not have blinders on and is shifting (have you
> installed Windows 7 yet?) and adapt to this market. However, can they
> compete in a world of Linux?? Time will tell.
>
> I currently subscribe to the Microsoft School Agreement and reevaluate
> this each year (you must pay for every system on campus regardless of
> whether it is installed, according to their agreement).
>
> Did you know you can get a great software package that gives you word
> processing, spreadsheet, presentation software, web authoring, best of
> class HD movie making, photo sharing and editing, DVD creation, all
> on a
> Unix based platform with regular updates and a huge support structure
> for just $1.00? The package is called iLife and iWork and the OS is
> OSX.
>
> cheers
>
> Matt Pearson
> Director of Technology, Security and Safety, MCDS
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A forum for independent school educators
> [mailto:ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:26 PM
> To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings
>
> We use OpenOffice due to the fact that we require students to learn to
> use three different operating systems (Windows, MacOS and Linux) and
> it is the only solution that will run on all three. I have found that
> OpenOffice 3 is much improved over the older versions.
>
> Even at the bargin price, and we have never been offered that price
> from Microsoft, equipping all of our computers with Office would cost
> use a considerable sum. When the issue came up a few years back I
> simply took the scholarship list into the committee and asked them to
> pick the three children that would not be getting a scholarship so we
> could pay Microsoft. That brought about a quick end to the
> conversation of using Microsoft Office.
>
> In the end student should be able to take what they learn in one word
> processor and apply it to any other.
>
> Greg Kearney
>
> On Feb 10, 2009, at 2:17 PM, Keith E Gatling wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jason Johnson <jasonpj@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would pay $29.95 for OpenOffice. I agree that there are things
>>> it does
>>> not do as well as Word (e.g. tables) and it can be slower. There
>>> are also
>>> some issues that would not be tolerated from word (e.g. wysiwyg
>>> loss of
>>> spacing after periods). But there are three issues to factor in:
>>>
>>> 1. Once out of college, most students will not have access to
>>> preferred
>>> pricing. This means $140 (list) or nearly triple what a school
>>> pays for the
>>> home version. And to get the full version will be around ($400).
>>> Those are
>>> very different costs that we implicitly steer students as a side
>>> effect of
>>> offering them access to the gold standard.
>>
>>
>> Actually, if you consider what used to be called the Student/Teacher
>> version
>> of Office, it's available for $150 and gives you three, count'em,
>> three
>> licences of Office to be used within one family. That means $50/
>> person. Not
>> at all unreasonable. I know that people are defining family rather
>> loosely
>> in order to get that price, but that's another issue, and nowhere
>> near the
>> $400 you cited. When Microsoft finally came up with student/family
>> pricing,
>> I could finally recommend Office to people in good faith.
>>
>> 2. There will be a small number of students who are frustrated
>> enough to
>>> consider improving the product. Because it is open source they can
>>> make it
>>> better. There will be a smaller number still who have the talent
>>> and will
>>> act on that impulse. But that is the promise of working with open
>>> source.
>>
>>
>> But is open source for everyone? Not yet, I don't think. If open
>> source
>> doesn't provide anywhere near the usability of "closed source," then
>> it's
>> worth asking why you're using it on a production basis.
>>
>> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
>> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
>> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
>> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L

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Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L

Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

My two cents (down from a nickel due to the economy),

I find it interesting that you require three OS exposures for the
student, but only one flavor of productivity software. I fully agree
that multiple exposures are great and that it is not necessary to teach
multiple office software types (even makes things worse actually).
Instead, I find it interesting because it underscores the fact that we
are moving more and more into the cloud (ala Google Docs, Ning,
Voicethread, Blogs, Wikis <insert lots more open source web based stuff
here>) and the device that you use to gain access to the cloud is
becoming less and less important.

We will always need the higher end content creation computers that exist
to publish compelling content and code to the cloud, but what you use to
interact with the software and services that exist there will soon be a
very inexpensive device that we really don't care much about in terms of
OS. The OS that wins or does battle successfully in that future market
will offer huge bang for the buck and be very trim in terms of code
base. Microsoft does not have blinders on and is shifting (have you
installed Windows 7 yet?) and adapt to this market. However, can they
compete in a world of Linux?? Time will tell.

I currently subscribe to the Microsoft School Agreement and reevaluate
this each year (you must pay for every system on campus regardless of
whether it is installed, according to their agreement). =20

Did you know you can get a great software package that gives you word
processing, spreadsheet, presentation software, web authoring, best of
class HD movie making, photo sharing and editing, DVD creation, all on a
Unix based platform with regular updates and a huge support structure
for just $1.00? The package is called iLife and iWork and the OS is
OSX.

cheers

Matt Pearson=20
Director of Technology, Security and Safety, MCDS=20


-----Original Message-----
From: A forum for independent school educators
[mailto:ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:26 PM
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

We use OpenOffice due to the fact that we require students to learn to =20
use three different operating systems (Windows, MacOS and Linux) and =20
it is the only solution that will run on all three. I have found that =20
OpenOffice 3 is much improved over the older versions.

Even at the bargin price, and we have never been offered that price =20
from Microsoft, equipping all of our computers with Office would cost =20
use a considerable sum. When the issue came up a few years back I =20
simply took the scholarship list into the committee and asked them to =20
pick the three children that would not be getting a scholarship so we =20
could pay Microsoft. That brought about a quick end to the =20
conversation of using Microsoft Office.

In the end student should be able to take what they learn in one word =20
processor and apply it to any other.

Greg Kearney

On Feb 10, 2009, at 2:17 PM, Keith E Gatling wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jason Johnson <jasonpj@yahoo.com> =20
> wrote:
>
>> I would pay $29.95 for OpenOffice. I agree that there are things =20
>> it does
>> not do as well as Word (e.g. tables) and it can be slower. There =20
>> are also
>> some issues that would not be tolerated from word (e.g. wysiwyg =20
>> loss of
>> spacing after periods). But there are three issues to factor in:
>>
>> 1. Once out of college, most students will not have access to =20
>> preferred
>> pricing. This means $140 (list) or nearly triple what a school =20
>> pays for the
>> home version. And to get the full version will be around ($400). =20
>> Those are
>> very different costs that we implicitly steer students as a side =20
>> effect of
>> offering them access to the gold standard.
>
>
> Actually, if you consider what used to be called the Student/Teacher =20
> version
> of Office, it's available for $150 and gives you three, count'em, =20
> three
> licences of Office to be used within one family. That means $50/=20
> person. Not
> at all unreasonable. I know that people are defining family rather =20
> loosely
> in order to get that price, but that's another issue, and nowhere =20
> near the
> $400 you cited. When Microsoft finally came up with student/family =20
> pricing,
> I could finally recommend Office to people in good faith.
>
> 2. There will be a small number of students who are frustrated =20
> enough to
>> consider improving the product. Because it is open source they can =20
>> make it
>> better. There will be a smaller number still who have the talent =20
>> and will
>> act on that impulse. But that is the promise of working with open =20
>> source.
>
>
> But is open source for everyone? Not yet, I don't think. If open =20
> source
> doesn't provide anywhere near the usability of "closed source," then =20
> it's
> worth asking why you're using it on a production basis.
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, =20
> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=3DISED-L

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Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons,
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Re: T1 and ADSL

I agree that a T1 is going to be a bottleneck. Of course, you must take a
look at exactly what amount and type of traffic is on your network. DSL
is OK, but the asymmetrical properties will probably make DSL a short term
solution. Metro ethernet type services are definitely the trend and the
way to go. Bandwidth continues to be more abundant and costs continually
decrease. As someone else mentioned, upgrades are a snap as well. I
would definitely recommend the use of a shaping device to curtail P2P
traffic and shape those who are utilizing extreme amounts of bandwidth. I
have been field trialing the NetEqualizer product with much success. The
NetEqualizer is cheap, easy to install, simple set up and it works! Good
luck.

Best regards,
Russ Ford
Cheshire Academy

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

Hi!

While my school still uses MS Office, I chose to go the Open Office
route when my computer had a catastrophic crash about a year ago. I'm
one of those people who doesn't use more than a small fraction of the
functions offered by word processors or spreadsheets, and was
attracted both by the price and by what I believe (could be a mistaken
impression) to be its ability to load quickly. Other than not liking
to deal with .docx documents (and thanks for your suggestions!), Open
Office does everything I want it to.

Take care,
Bill Ivey
Stoneleigh-Burnham School

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:59:28 -0500
>From: Keith E Gatling <kgatling@MPH.NET>
>Subject: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

There's been so many wonderful responses to this question I am not sure i=
f I can add much to the conversation, but it's an interesting question, o=
ne I'm sure I'll get as we transition from MS Office to OpenOffice, so th=
is is a good way to organize my
thoughts. Responses below.

>OK, so I've seen mention on this list from many schools who have jumped =
on
>the OpenOffice bandwagon as a way of saving a ton of money and fighting =
the
>evil empire that comes out of Redmond. But here's the real question: whe=
n
>all is said and done, were you actually satisfied using OpenOffice? Is i=
t a
>product that you might have actually paid *real money* to use, or are yo=
u
>just using it to save money and to spite Microsoft?

Yes. I'd pay for OpenOffice. The days when free, open source equated to i=
ffy quality or crude interfaces is rapidly coming to an end. OO does ever=
ything I need an office suite to do for me. OO3 (mac version) opens faste=
r for me than MS Office 2008,
handles all of the docx formats, and has a library of useful extensions t=
hat I can add on if needed.

I am agnostic about Microsoft products. It's easy to join in with others =
who joke about them or bash them, but I don't consider them the "evil emp=
ire." Cost savings is a factor, and it should be a factor, in deciding wh=
at to use. But I am also dedicated
to the open source model, its transparency, and its community of users an=
d developers.=20

<snip>

>Even one of our die-hard Microsoft-haters says that OpenOffice Writer
>"behaves like a free program." I'm thinking that some of the look and fe=
el
>that I've come to expect over the years had to be avoided so that there
>wouldn't be a lawsuit. Of course, as I think about the fact that it's a
>cross-platform program, and thinking of some of the issues I've had with
>BlueJ for my Java class, it could also be a function of them trying to
>create one interface for all three operating systems.

I'm not sure what you colleague means by behaving like a free program. It=
does behave differently from MS Office, just as any other word processor=
, spreadsheet, or presentation program does. Different does not mean infe=
rior.=20
>
>I've used many word processing programs over the past 22 years, from XyW=
rite
>to WordPerfect, Word, MacWrite, WriteNow, ClarisWorks, NeoOffice, and no=
w
>OpenOffice. As far as I'm concerned Word is the gold standard, doing wha=
t
>95% of the people want to do 95% of the time, and doing it well. Perhaps
>with that in mind, the people in Redmond have earned their $50 per user.

Familiarity is MS Office's greatest strength and, arguably, also its grea=
test liability. In our school, most of our users touch perhaps only 10 to=
15% of MS Office's functionality. For word processing tasks, I suspect t=
hat many users could get by with
Apple's TextEdit program. I think we all get a bit peeved when someone se=
nds us an email with a Word attachment that could just have easily been w=
ritten and formatted in the email program itself. But force of habit is p=
owerful, and some people are slow
to change. Like you, Keith, I've been in the business long enough to have=
seen many programs come and go. I still miss some aspects of the old App=
leWorks. =20

I
>'ll have a little more time to play around with OpenOffice Writer, and t=
o
>explore the joys that await me in their spreadsheet, but for now Word an=
d
>Excel are looking pretty good to me.
>
>I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of others who have worked w=
ith
>OpenOffice.

I cut the strings to MS Office several months ago and have not regretted =
the change. I'm still learning some of the power and more obscure feature=
s of OO, mostly out of curiosity than need.

Let me add that, for simple collaborative documents, I am increasingly us=
ing Google docs and finding that it, too, works well for me in certain si=
tuations.

Thanks for asking the question, and thanks, too, to all of the ISED membe=
rs for their thoughtful responses.

-----
Treat each piece of paper as precious and reduce waste - don't print elec=
tronic documents.
-----
Steve Taffee 650.470.7725 (office)
Director of Technology 415.613.6684 (mobile)
Castilleja School 650.326.8036 (fax)
1310 Bryant Street steve_taffee@castilleja.org =20
Palo Alto, CA 94301 www.castilleja.org | taffee.edublogs.or=
g
Women Learning, Women Leading
-------


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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

Something just occurred to me regarding any supposed cost-savings. I know
that at least for our school, we still have licenses for many copies of
older versions of Office (both Mac and Windows) that still work, but just
aren't the latest and greatest. So the only cost-savings would result from
not upgrading those versions.

But now the question arises of what we do about those old versions. Do we
start publicizing now that starting in the 2009-10 school year we'll only be
supporting OpenOffice on the student computers and make the already paid for
Microsoft product go away? Do we announce that we'll only be *teaching*
OpenOffice, but the older versions of Office will still be available on the
computers for as long as they'll still run? Is there some third way that I
haven't thought of?

And, by the way, it's my understanding here that we're only talking about
savings from using OpenOffice on *student* computers, and that faculty and
staff members who need and use all the extra bells and whistles available in
the Microsoft product would still have it available on their computers.
--
keg

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Keith E Gatling - Computer Instructor
Manlius Pebble Hill School
5300 Jamesville Rd
DeWitt, NY 13214
315.446.2452
http://www.gatling.us/keith

Some teachers teach subjects. Others teach students.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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ISED/Introduction

Greetings:
As a new member of the listserve, I wanted to take a moment to introduce
myself. My name is TJ Rainsford and I am currently an adjunct faculty member
in the Department of History at Mount Saint Mary's University in Emmitsburg,
MD. I am also currently pursuing teaching positions with independent
schools in the Washington, DC area. My current adjunct position represents
a bit of a career change for me.

For the past 12 years, I have worked as an information technology
professional primarily to non-profit organizations as well as independent
schools in the Washington, DC area. While I still have a love for
technology, I have this great desire to return to my true passion, the study
and teaching of History.

As a technologist, I think it is safe to say that I am a jack of all trades.
I have done everything from software and Web development to network
engineering all the way up to CTO/CIO consulting. Hopefully I can be of
assistance to other technologists on the list.

Academically, I consider myself an intellectual historian. My background is
in both history and philosophy and I find the development of ideas and
philosophies throughout history quite fascinating. I also have an interest
in the history of technology (go figure) and historiography (particularly
research methodology in the information age). While I have done quite a bit
of course work in non-Western history, my background is primarily rooted in
Europe and the US.

Warmest regards to one and all!
TJ

--
TJ Rainsford, MA
E: tjrainsford@gmail.com

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The Storefront Penny Project

Spurred on by Obama's common usage of trillion, we at The Children's
Storefront are seeking "penny partners" in our quest to gather 1,000,000
pennies and subsequently 1,000,000,000 pennies on 129th Street in Harlem.
Please pass on this e-mail and the Web page of
http://www.cstorefront.org/pennies/ to the community service contact
person (or anyone else) at your school. We are hoping to identify 100
schools to become "penny partners" with us and to have each of the schools
send us/bring us between 1,000 and 10,000 pennies. Yes, I am smart enough
to know that 1,000,000,000 pennies will be a challenge, but to quote Kevin
Garnett of the Boston Celtics, "anything is possible" ;-)

In connecting your school to our school in this potential venture, we hope
there will be mutual benefit in having the kids at various grade levels
SKYPE, e-mail and share solutions to math problems involving pennies.
Today, for example, my eighth graders will be using a spreadsheet to
calculate how much space on 129th street (see
http://www.thechildrensstorefront.org/tech/post129thstreet.jpg) we would
need to use for the billion pennies, along with how much they will weigh.
Steve

Steve Bergen (sbergen@cstorefront.org)
CIO and Computer Teacher, The Children's Storefront
70 East 129th Street, New York, NY 10035

An Independent School in Harlem
Web site: http://www.thechildrensstorefront.org
Tech Saturday Info is posted at http://www.techsaturdays.org

also co-director, The "Summercore" Teaching Company
until the Pats go 19-0 ... http://www.summercore.com

Summercore 2009 includes June 15-19 at Castilleja, June 22-26 at New
Canaan Country School , July 6-10 at Berkeley Carroll

July 13-17 at Horace Mann, NY as well as July 27-31 at Shorecrest in St.
Petersburg, FL (both open to public)

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009

edACCESS 2009

"...the best education focused tech conference on the planet!"
--Tom Phelan, Peddie School

edACCESS 2009, our 18th annual conference!,
June 22 - 25, 2009
Williston Northampton School, Easthampton, MA.

edACCESS conferences use a "structured unconference" model - the peer
conference model developed by Adrian Segar (www.segar.com).

On the first day of every edACCESS conference, all attendees join a
facilitated roundtable discussion. Each participant has the opportunity to
briefly introduce themselves, their wishes for the conference, and their
experience. The roundtable provides an opportunity early in the conference
to discover other attendees with similar interests and relevant experience,
and helps to determine focus group topics, the heart of our conference
program.

At edACCESS the participants determine the sessions. Using the roundtable
discussion, and focus group sign up, attendees create a list of session
topics, and conference organizers help find attendees qualified to lead the
sessions. Focus groups can be presentations, panels, discussions, workshops,
tours, etc. This process allows the conference to meet the expressed needs
of participants, and it supports attendees getting to know each other in
informal sessions that reflect actual attendee wishes. Year after year,
edACCESS focus groups receive very high evaluation ratings.

Keynote
Knowledge after Information
Presenter: David Weinberger

As the Information Age comes to a close, the nature of knowledge is
changing. The Information Age and Western culture leading up to it have
assumed that knowledge is scarce and hard to come by, but that it is also of
the highest value when found. But now we are in a time of abundance of
knowledge, information, insights, and opinions ... but also of lies,
deceptions, bias and foolishness. We are not going to be able to squeeze
knowledge back into its old boundaries. Indeed, the new abundance may be
transforming the nature, social role, and social effects of knowledge. In
his keynote, David Weinberger will look at what knowledge is becoming in an
age of abundance.
David Weinberger is an American technologist, professional speaker and
commentator, probably best known as co-author of the Cluetrain Manifesto
(originally a Web site, and eventually a book, which has been described as
"a primer on Internet marketing.") Weinberger's work focuses on how the
internet is changing human relationships, communication, and society. His
latest book, Everything Is Miscellaneous: The Power of the New Digital
Disorder
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805088113?ie=UTF8&tag=segarconsu-20&linkC
ode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0805088113
> , caught our
attention, because of its immediate relevance to education. As Publisher's
Weekly puts it '"Today's avalanche of fresh information," Weinberger writes,
"requires relinquishing control of how we organize pretty much everything";
he envisions an ever-changing array of "useful, powerful and beautiful ways
to make sense of our world."' Some of David's ideas mirror the peer
conference approach we use for our edACCESS conferences.

A philosopher by training, he holds a Ph.D. from the University of Toronto
and taught college from 1980-1986. He was a gag writer for the comic strip
"Inside Woody Allen" from 1976-1983. He became a marketing consultant and
executive at several high-tech companies, and currently serves as a fellow
at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School, where
he co-teaches a class on "The Web Difference" with John Palfrey. He had the
title Senior Internet Advisor to Howard Dean's 2004 presidential campaign,
and provided technology policy advice to John Edwards' 2008 presidential
campaign.--Excerpted from Wikipedia.

Topical Sessions
Demo Showcase: Bring the Excitement Home!
Moderator: JT Amirault <jamirault@groton.org>, Groton School, MA

This session, brought back by popular demand from last year's conference but
with all new content, will provide many easy ways to bring some of the
conference excitement home. Presenters will provide an assortment of ten to
fifteen minute demonstrations that showcase a variety of useful ideas and
techniques. You'll be able to reproduce some of the demonstrations
post-conference by following written instructions posted on the edACCESS
wiki. The goal of this session is to expose you to at least one useful
technique or tool you can demonstrate back at your school. Please contact JT
if you are interested in offering a demonstration at this session.

The Best Service is No Service
Presenter: Andy Speyer, Choate Rosemary Hall, CT

The challenge is great. Students, faculty, and staff demand more support
than ever. However, there is resistance to formal training. The traditional
models of customer service no longer satisfy the wide spectrum of clients at
our institutions. Based on the book The Best Service is No Service by Bill
Price and David Jaffe, Andy's presentation will examine how to reconstruct
service and professional development to meet today's demands. Eight
principles guide this transformation: 1) challenge customer demand for
service, 2) eliminate dumb contacts, 3) create engaging self-service, 4) be
proactive, 5) make it really easy to contact you, 6) own the actions across
the department, 7) listen and act, and 8) deliver great service experiences.
This session is interactive and will involve audience participation.

Cloud Computing
Moderator: Bill Campbell, Dwight-Englewood School, NJ
Panel: Joe Lorenzatti, Williston Northampton School, MA; Carolynn Parisi,
Mount Saint Mary Academy, NJ; Tom Phelan, Peddie School, NJ

School information technology departments must manage information resources,
struggling with issues such as integration, updates, backup, recovery,
budgets, and replacement cycles. Cloud computing can help reduce our
technical management load. When used appropriately, it can allow us to do
more with less, even with a small staff and tight budgets. Outsourcing
through cloud computing moves some responsibility for hardware and software
maintenance to specialists. We can then concentrate on getting the maximum
utility out of applications and focusing on the needs of our constituents.
Panelists will describe their experience with a variety of cloud computing
applications, including migrating from a traditional email and calendaring
server to Google Apps for Education; automatic asset inventory; help desk;
hosted Moodle CMS; spam filtering; remote backup; college counseling; and
off-site, hot-spare, virtual SQL and Exchange servers.

All the other great stuff:
- Vendor exhibits
- Focus groups - half the conference this year, always a highlight.
- Softball game
- Beer and wine tasting
- Amazing, yet tasteful, memorabilia

Conference information
When: Monday, June 22 - Thursday, June 25, 2009.
Where: Williston Northampton School, (550 students, 90 faculty) located on
125 acres in Easthampton, Massachusetts.

For more information: Detailed information about edACCESS and this
conference can be found at our web site, http://www.edaccess.org

If you have registered for this or any prior edACCESS conference, you can
access our conference wiki (registration required) at
http://edaccess.editme.com. Here you can browse prior year conference
discussions and resource links, discuss topics of interest, and suggest
focus group topics for the 2009 conference.

edaccess 2009 conference registration
Includes conference attendance, accommodations Monday evening through
Thursday lunch, plus all meals, from dinner Monday through dinner on
Thursday, except for dinner on Wednesday.

Cost
Early registration. . . . . . . . . . . . Paid in full before April 1 . . .
.. . . . . $480.00
Standard registration. . . . . . . . .Paid in full before May 6 . . . . . .
. . . .$555.00
Late registration . . . .. At the door, subject to space available . . . .
$630.00
Spouse/significant other meals and accommodations . . . .. . . . . .
.$250.00

A discount of 10% of these fees can be taken for three or more attendees
from the same school. Refunds of conference registrations can be made, less
a $50 processing fee, before June 1. No refunds can be provided after this
date.
To register for the conference, go to
http://www.edaccess.org/annual_conference/registration.cfm

--
Christopher Butler
Academic Technology Director
St. John's Preparatory School
http://www.stjohnsprep.org


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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

Some thoughts below --

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Keith E Gatling <keith@gatling.us> wrote:
>
>
> Actually, if you consider what used to be called the
> Student/Teacher version
> of Office, it's available for $150 and gives you three,
> count'em, three
> licences of Office to be used within one family. That means
> $50/person. Not
> at all unreasonable. I know that people are defining family
> rather loosely
> in order to get that price, but that's another issue,
> and nowhere near the
> $400 you cited. When Microsoft finally came up with
> student/family pricing,
> I could finally recommend Office to people in good faith.

As Jason points out in his email, when the price is 50/license, sold individually, then we can say that the cost for Office is 50/person. An search of amazon.com gives you a price of 79/person, but that's still not the same thing. Details matter, especially when we are in the position of making recommendations or (in the case of software required by schools) requirements for how people spend their money.

>
> 2. There will be a small number of students who are
> frustrated enough to
> > consider improving the product. Because it is open
> source they can make it
> > better. There will be a smaller number still who have
> the talent and will
> > act on that impulse. But that is the promise of
> working with open source.

Many people are frustrated with how Office works, and they have no freedom to make it better. If you really want to have fun, file a feature request with Microsoft. For extra fun, follow up a week later to see how it is being received.

>
>
> But is open source for everyone?

Nothing is for everyone. Tastes differ in just about everything, and software is no exception. This is not an open source/proprietary thing, this is an "I'm human with emotional tendencies" thing.

> Not yet, I don't
> think. If open source
> doesn't provide anywhere near the usability of
> "closed source," then it's
> worth asking why you're using it on a production basis.

Two things here: First, choose the tool based on the task. For most writing needs, the word processor you use doesn't really matter. Most of us would be perfectly content with a version of WordPerfect circa 2000. If a school is actively involved in teaching word processing skills as a stand alone element of their curriculum, I would strongly urge them to merge the skills piece into another part of their curriculum.

Second, open source is more than Open Office. A lot more. Every time you use the internet, you use open source tools, most of the time without knowing it. Think apache, php, mysql, ruby, etc. If you're reading this on a recently minted Mac, your machine is leveraging open source code. The question of whether open source is ready to be used on a "production basis" is dated. Open source is here; now can we move on to the discussions about how we best support teaching and learning in the most efficient ways possible?

Cheers,

Bill


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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

Actually, if you consider what used to be called the Student/Teacher version
of Office, it's available for $150 and gives you three, count'em, three
licences of Office to be used within one family. That means $50/person. Not
at all unreasonable. I know that people are defining family rather loosely
in order to get that price, but that's another issue, and nowhere near the
$400 you cited. When Microsoft finally came up with student/family pricing,
I could finally recommend Office to people in good faith.


But isn't that precisely the point. Most people would willingly pay $30-$60 for the Home/Student/Teacher version of Office. Instead they must spend $150(ish) depending on the retailer and then bend or break the rules to distribute the license across 3 family members (In which some include roommates, boyfriends, or neighbors). Even worse, schools tend to get the full version of Office which retails for $400/seat and includes access, publisher, etc. So it seems you can recommend Office with a wink or OpenOffice with a smile, and small apologies for its shortcomings.

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

We use OpenOffice due to the fact that we require students to learn to
use three different operating systems (Windows, MacOS and Linux) and
it is the only solution that will run on all three. I have found that
OpenOffice 3 is much improved over the older versions.

Even at the bargin price, and we have never been offered that price
from Microsoft, equipping all of our computers with Office would cost
use a considerable sum. When the issue came up a few years back I
simply took the scholarship list into the committee and asked them to
pick the three children that would not be getting a scholarship so we
could pay Microsoft. That brought about a quick end to the
conversation of using Microsoft Office.

In the end student should be able to take what they learn in one word
processor and apply it to any other.

Greg Kearney

On Feb 10, 2009, at 2:17 PM, Keith E Gatling wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jason Johnson <jasonpj@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I would pay $29.95 for OpenOffice. I agree that there are things
>> it does
>> not do as well as Word (e.g. tables) and it can be slower. There
>> are also
>> some issues that would not be tolerated from word (e.g. wysiwyg
>> loss of
>> spacing after periods). But there are three issues to factor in:
>>
>> 1. Once out of college, most students will not have access to
>> preferred
>> pricing. This means $140 (list) or nearly triple what a school
>> pays for the
>> home version. And to get the full version will be around ($400).
>> Those are
>> very different costs that we implicitly steer students as a side
>> effect of
>> offering them access to the gold standard.
>
>
> Actually, if you consider what used to be called the Student/Teacher
> version
> of Office, it's available for $150 and gives you three, count'em,
> three
> licences of Office to be used within one family. That means $50/
> person. Not
> at all unreasonable. I know that people are defining family rather
> loosely
> in order to get that price, but that's another issue, and nowhere
> near the
> $400 you cited. When Microsoft finally came up with student/family
> pricing,
> I could finally recommend Office to people in good faith.
>
> 2. There will be a small number of students who are frustrated
> enough to
>> consider improving the product. Because it is open source they can
>> make it
>> better. There will be a smaller number still who have the talent
>> and will
>> act on that impulse. But that is the promise of working with open
>> source.
>
>
> But is open source for everyone? Not yet, I don't think. If open
> source
> doesn't provide anywhere near the usability of "closed source," then
> it's
> worth asking why you're using it on a production basis.
>
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> attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jason Johnson <jasonpj@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I would pay $29.95 for OpenOffice. I agree that there are things it does
> not do as well as Word (e.g. tables) and it can be slower. There are also
> some issues that would not be tolerated from word (e.g. wysiwyg loss of
> spacing after periods). But there are three issues to factor in:
>
> 1. Once out of college, most students will not have access to preferred
> pricing. This means $140 (list) or nearly triple what a school pays for the
> home version. And to get the full version will be around ($400). Those are
> very different costs that we implicitly steer students as a side effect of
> offering them access to the gold standard.


Actually, if you consider what used to be called the Student/Teacher version
of Office, it's available for $150 and gives you three, count'em, three
licences of Office to be used within one family. That means $50/person. Not
at all unreasonable. I know that people are defining family rather loosely
in order to get that price, but that's another issue, and nowhere near the
$400 you cited. When Microsoft finally came up with student/family pricing,
I could finally recommend Office to people in good faith.

2. There will be a small number of students who are frustrated enough to
> consider improving the product. Because it is open source they can make it
> better. There will be a smaller number still who have the talent and will
> act on that impulse. But that is the promise of working with open source.


But is open source for everyone? Not yet, I don't think. If open source
doesn't provide anywhere near the usability of "closed source," then it's
worth asking why you're using it on a production basis.

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 20:59 -0500, Keith E Gatling wrote:

> OK, so I've seen mention on this list from many schools who have jumped on
> the OpenOffice bandwagon as a way of saving a ton of money and fighting the
> evil empire that comes out of Redmond. But here's the real question: when
> all is said and done, were you actually satisfied using OpenOffice? Is it a
> product that you might have actually paid *real money* to use, or are you
> just using it to save money and to spite Microsoft?

Don't get me wrong - I like Microsoft and enjoy their applications.
However, I would also love a Mercedes or a Cadillac or a Rolls, but at
some point there has to be a pro's vs. con's vs. cost discussion.
That's why I drive a five year old Chrysler and am very happy with it.
It's the same reason why I like OpenOffice. It's saved me and my
company and my schools usually enough money so that they can purchase a
few more PC's to give more kids a chance to get on and learn and drove
down the costs for their home computers - and with a move over to Linux
- they can save even more

>
> I ask this because I was thrown into teach OpenOffice Writer to my 6th
> graders when I realized, just as class was beginning, that Microsoft Office
> hadn't been installed on our new laptops for reasons which need not be gone
> into here. OpenOffice, however, was installed, and figuring that I can learn
> any word processing program, I taught them that on the fly. Now they all
> know the basics of it, but I'm not sure that I like the way it does things.

It is a change and Sun is spending money on usability testing. It is a
bit different, but have you tried Windows Vista or Microsoft 7 yet?
You'll be dealing with change on those two - so it all depends on what
you're comfortable with, what value you place on that and the amount of
discretionary funds that are available at your school.

However, you should have been notified by your IT department about the
change over - no one likes a surprise!

>
> Even one of our die-hard Microsoft-haters says that OpenOffice Writer
> "behaves like a free program." I'm thinking that some of the look and feel
> that I've come to expect over the years had to be avoided so that there
> wouldn't be a lawsuit. Of course, as I think about the fact that it's a
> cross-platform program, and thinking of some of the issues I've had with
> BlueJ for my Java class, it could also be a function of them trying to
> create one interface for all three operating systems.

What version are you using? What operating system is it using?
However, I've found that you have to manage the expectations, explain to
people why you're making the change and what the change brings - both
good and bad. To just spring it on the school will probably result in
your school moving back to Microsoft Office - which is fine if you have
the cash.

>
> I've used many word processing programs over the past 22 years, from XyWrite
> to WordPerfect, Word, MacWrite, WriteNow, ClarisWorks, NeoOffice, and now
> OpenOffice. As far as I'm concerned Word is the gold standard, doing what
> 95% of the people want to do 95% of the time, and doing it well. Perhaps
> with that in mind, the people in Redmond have earned their $50 per user.
>
> I'll have a little more time to play around with OpenOffice Writer, and to
> explore the joys that await me in their spreadsheet, but for now Word and
> Excel are looking pretty good to me.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of others who have worked with
> OpenOffice.


I've worked with OpenOffice for the last three years using Ubuntu Linux.
I've tried to go back to Windows XP on occassion, but my PC is ready to
work and finished with booting in 30 seconds while the XP takes about
five minutes before it's finished with loading most of the anti-virus /
drivers / cr*pware that comes with some of the printers, etc. I have
had only one problem working with a guy that had Windows Vista with the
latest version of Word - but I just upgraded to the latest version of
OpenOffice and it fixed the issue.

I have worked with many different people in many different organizations
- only one or two were running 'nix and OO and over those three years
I've personally only had the one problem with Office 7. That includes
creating, reading, sharing, updating, tracking in Word and multiple
functions etc with Calc.

I'll have to guess since you're not pleased with the interface in
Writer, you're probably going to hate Calc - so it may be best for
everyone to just sit down and have a heart-to-heart with your IT staff
to understand why they've gone with OO and if there's any options for
you and your classes. However, try to keep an open mind since many in
tech are trying to curb costs in this age of economic meltdowns.

HTH

Matt Burkhardt, MSTM
President
Impari Systems, Inc.
502 Fairview Avenue
Frederick, MD 21701
mlb@imparisystems.com
www.imparisystems.com
(301) 682-7901

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Re: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

I would pay $29.95 for OpenOffice. I agree that there are things it does not do as well as Word (e.g. tables) and it can be slower. There are also some issues that would not be tolerated from word (e.g. wysiwyg loss of spacing after periods). But there are three issues to factor in:

1. Once out of college, most students will not have access to preferred pricing. This means $140 (list) or nearly triple what a school pays for the home version. And to get the full version will be around ($400). Those are very different costs that we implicitly steer students as a side effect of offering them access to the gold standard.

2. There will be a small number of students who are frustrated enough to consider improving the product. Because it is open source they can make it better. There will be a smaller number still who have the talent and will act on that impulse. But that is the promise of working with open source.

3. As a student, what difficulties will you have transitioning from OpenOffice to Word. My anecdotal experience is that the problems will be minimal, especially if you have already cross-trained on other systems like google docs, yahoo's mail editor, etc. So if the incremental learning curve is small enough, there is only a nominal difference from an educator's perspective and it becomes a distinction without a difference.

_J
____________________________
Jason at jasonpj@yahoo.com


________________________________
From: Keith E Gatling <kgatling@MPH.NET>
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:59:28 PM
Subject: OpenOffice: Beyond the Cost Savings

OK, so I've seen mention on this list from many schools who have jumped on
the OpenOffice bandwagon as a way of saving a ton of money and fighting the
evil empire that comes out of Redmond. But here's the real question: when
all is said and done, were you actually satisfied using OpenOffice? Is it a
product that you might have actually paid *real money* to use, or are you
just using it to save money and to spite Microsoft?

I ask this because I was thrown into teach OpenOffice Writer to my 6th
graders when I realized, just as class was beginning, that Microsoft Office
hadn't been installed on our new laptops for reasons which need not be gone
into here. OpenOffice, however, was installed, and figuring that I can learn
any word processing program, I taught them that on the fly. Now they all
know the basics of it, but I'm not sure that I like the way it does things.

Even one of our die-hard Microsoft-haters says that OpenOffice Writer
"behaves like a free program." I'm thinking that some of the look and feel
that I've come to expect over the years had to be avoided so that there
wouldn't be a lawsuit. Of course, as I think about the fact that it's a
cross-platform program, and thinking of some of the issues I've had with
BlueJ for my Java class, it could also be a function of them trying to
create one interface for all three operating systems.

I've used many word processing programs over the past 22 years, from XyWrite
to WordPerfect, Word, MacWrite, WriteNow, ClarisWorks, NeoOffice, and now
OpenOffice. As far as I'm concerned Word is the gold standard, doing what
95% of the people want to do 95% of the time, and doing it well. Perhaps
with that in mind, the people in Redmond have earned their $50 per user.

I'll have a little more time to play around with OpenOffice Writer, and to
explore the joys that await me in their spreadsheet, but for now Word and
Excel are looking pretty good to me.

I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of others who have worked with
OpenOffice.
--
keg

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Keith E Gatling - Computer Instructor
Manlius Pebble Hill School
5300 Jamesville Rd
DeWitt, NY 13214
315.446.2452
http://www.gatling.us/keith

Some teachers teach subjects. Others teach people.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Re: T1 and ADSL

To answer your first question, yes, 300 users could put a large strain on a single T1. ADSL would probably help you out for a bit but the more and more we use the internet it will probably just be a bandaid for a larger problem. If I could make a few
suggestions I would do a few things.

First, I would look into a metro-ethernet/metro-fiber connection. This is an internet connection that can be built to whatever your demands are. You could start out with a 2-6MB connection and when you need to add more bandwidth due to growth your ISP
just needs adjust the QoS. We just upgraded our 10MB up/down connection to a 20MB up/down connection. The change took less than an hour. We use this for 800ish users.

The second thing I would suggest is to make sure you have control of your bandwidth. Use some sort of packet shaping device like an Allot Netenforcer or Packeteer to prevent bandwidth intensive apps like p2p and movie/audio streaming to hog all of your
bandwidth.

Justin Dover
Harpeth Hall School
615-346-0082

A forum for independent school educators <ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 at 8:21 AM -0600 wrote:
>I am a new IT Director at a k8 school. I come from the teaching side of things and will slowly be
>picking up on the technical.
>
>We currently have a T1 line for 300 students. When a class runs certain online applications (online
>typing, Voicethread...) the network slows to a frustrating speed. It has been suggested that we
>continue to use our T1 line for outgoing traffic (e-mail, FileMaker remote access...) and add an ADSL
>line to handle all incoming web.
>
>2 questions:
>Should I be experiencing this slowdown with a T1 line?
>Is the proposed addition of an ADSL line a good cure?
>
>Thank you for your time,
>
>Rob Thomson
>IT Director
>Montcrest School
>Toronto, ON
>rob_thomson@montcrest.on.ca
>
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Re: T1 and ADSL

Yes, it is understandable that you would be experiencing a slowdown like
that with a single T1. I don't
believe that the ADSL line is the optimum solution to your problem.
From the standpoint of speed and
cost, it would be much better to go with a direct fiber optic Internet
feed from Verizon or whatever vendor
you have in Ontario.

We replaced all of our T1 lines with Verizon FIOS last year. We went
from (4) T1s (about 6Mbps of band-
width) to (2) 50Mbps FIOS circuits and our monthly costs went from $2200
to $500. We are very happy
with our setup now.

Good luck,

David E. Snodgress
Director of Technology & Media Services
Saint Stephen's Episcopal School
315 41st Street West
Bradenton, FL 34209
dsnodgress@saintstephens.org
941-932-6835

Rob Thomson wrote:
> I am a new IT Director at a k8 school. I come from the teaching side of things and will slowly be
> picking up on the technical.
>
> We currently have a T1 line for 300 students. When a class runs certain online applications (online
> typing, Voicethread...) the network slows to a frustrating speed. It has been suggested that we
> continue to use our T1 line for outgoing traffic (e-mail, FileMaker remote access...) and add an ADSL
> line to handle all incoming web.
>
> 2 questions:
> Should I be experiencing this slowdown with a T1 line?
> Is the proposed addition of an ADSL line a good cure?
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Rob Thomson
> IT Director
> Montcrest School
> Toronto, ON
> rob_thomson@montcrest.on.ca
>
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Re: T1 and ADSL

Before making a decision you should really try to get a profile of your traffic. If you have a T-1 you may have access to that data from your service provider or you may be able to pull it from a device on your network (e.g. a firewall or switch). This will give you an objective measurement of how much of the t-1 is being used and weather it is in-bound/ out-bound or both that is the problem. You can buy devices to profile your traffic (e.g. how much is YouTube vs email), and there are a number of FOSS products that can help (e.g. MRTG) but start with what you already have.

You say that the network slows but the details are important. If it slows for the class but not the rest of the school then it could be an internal network issue affecting that classroom. If the entire school sees things slow down (e.g. printing, file transfers to servers, etc.) then it is probably a switching issue that has nothing to do with the T-1 either. Depending on your program a T-1 could be plenty or not nearly enough. I work with a similar sized school that has yet to max out DSL and a seen a smaller program with heavy student laptop use max them out. Having the data will give you an objective measurement of where to get the biggest bang for your buck.

_J


____________________________
Jason at jasonpj@yahoo.com


________________________________
From: Rob Thomson <rob_thomson@MONTCREST.ON.CA>
To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:21:50 AM
Subject: T1 and ADSL

I am a new IT Director at a k8 school. I come from the teaching side of things and will slowly be
picking up on the technical.

We currently have a T1 line for 300 students. When a class runs certain online applications (online
typing, Voicethread...) the network slows to a frustrating speed. It has been suggested that we
continue to use our T1 line for outgoing traffic (e-mail, FileMaker remote access...) and add an ADSL
line to handle all incoming web.

2 questions:
Should I be experiencing this slowdown with a T1 line?
Is the proposed addition of an ADSL line a good cure?

Thank you for your time,

Rob Thomson
IT Director
Montcrest School
Toronto, ON
rob_thomson@montcrest.on.ca

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Re: .docx for OpenOffice?

Unless I'm missing something here, OO3 can open docx automatically. It cannot, however, save in that format.

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/General/How_do_I_open_Microsoft_Office_2007_files%3F

or, for those who like manageable urls: http://is.gd/j4d2

Cheers,

Bill


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Brian Lee <blee@mph.net> wrote:

> From: Brian Lee <blee@mph.net>
> Subject: Re: .docx for OpenOffice?
> To: ISED-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 7:25 PM
> OpenXML converter from the Microsoft Website.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx?pid=&fid=6B9238E1-CF69-48C4-BF2D
> -C4A8ACEEE520#viewer
>
> Brian
>
> On 2/9/09 9:23 PM, "Bill Ivey"
> <bivey01370@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > While we're on the subject, anyone have good ideas
> for workarounds for
> > easily converting .docx files for OpenOffice? If I
> download from our
> > FirstClass system, once OpenOffice tells me it
> can't read the fille, I
> > can usually "Open With..." from my temp
> files folder and have it more
> > or less work, but I would love a simpler and/or more
> elegant approach
> > if one exists.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Bill Ivey
> > Stoneleigh-Burnham School
> >
> > [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> > Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative
> commons, attribution,
> > non-commercial, share-alike license.
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> http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative
> commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed,
> http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L


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Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
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T1 and ADSL

I am a new IT Director at a k8 school. I come from the teaching side of things and will slowly be
picking up on the technical.

We currently have a T1 line for 300 students. When a class runs certain online applications (online
typing, Voicethread...) the network slows to a frustrating speed. It has been suggested that we
continue to use our T1 line for outgoing traffic (e-mail, FileMaker remote access...) and add an ADSL
line to handle all incoming web.

2 questions:
Should I be experiencing this slowdown with a T1 line?
Is the proposed addition of an ADSL line a good cure?

Thank you for your time,

Rob Thomson
IT Director
Montcrest School
Toronto, ON
rob_thomson@montcrest.on.ca

[ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution, non-commercial, share-alike license.
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Monday, February 9, 2009

Re: .docx for OpenOffice?

OpenXML converter from the Microsoft Website.

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx?pid=&fid=6B9238E1-CF69-48C4-BF2D
-C4A8ACEEE520#viewer

Brian

On 2/9/09 9:23 PM, "Bill Ivey" <bivey01370@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> While we're on the subject, anyone have good ideas for workarounds for
> easily converting .docx files for OpenOffice? If I download from our
> FirstClass system, once OpenOffice tells me it can't read the fille, I
> can usually "Open With..." from my temp files folder and have it more
> or less work, but I would love a simpler and/or more elegant approach
> if one exists.
>
> Take care,
> Bill Ivey
> Stoneleigh-Burnham School
>
> [ For info on ISED-L see http://www.gds.org/ISED-L ]
> Submissions to ISED-L are released under a creative commons, attribution,
> non-commercial, share-alike license.
> RSS Feed, http://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?RSS&L=ISED-L

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